UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- was i the honest judge? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=363630)

was i the honest judge?

went to a hunt last night, here's the scenerio. wondering if i was an honest judge?

1st drop: cut dogs loose. dog A and B get gone. Dog C sits at our feet. owner of dog C wants to walk in the woods to get his dog going. I say well lets wait and see what the other dogs are doing. Dog A strikes a ways up the hill, he is struck in for 100. Dog A goes quiet so the 8 is started. 4 minutes go by and Dog B opens up and goes good on trail, struck in for 75. 8 is broke on dog A for dog B being struck in. Dog C is still sitting at our feet, but when dog B opens, Dog C darts off in that direction. Dog C opens and owner strikes her in for 50 and trees her for 125. Dog B is treed for 75 and Dog A is treed in for 50. Walk to the tree, i like to be the first one in, Dog C comes off the tree and puts its nose down by a bunch of fallen logs and barks on another tree and runs back to previous tree. I say Minus Dog C for putting nose on ground and barking on a different tree. A fight breaks out saying she's not minused i told you she would come to me.... well she got minused. The owner would not shine the tree, so the other cast member and I shined, decided to minus the tree. Dog C's owner told the guide, I saw the coon walking in but i'm not letting her get plus points. UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT! Tree is voted on a minus.

2nd drop: same thing dog A and B get gone, Dog C sits at our feet. Dog B is struck in for first, dog A struck in second. Dog C takes off to those dogs and strike in for third. Eventually Dog C is called for first tree, followed by Dog A for second, dog B for third. walk to the tree, guide says maybe all walk in together to see what the dogs are doing. Walk in Dog C is walking around with its nose on the ground, I pointed it out to the owner, he still disagreed. Minused her for going back on trail. owner of Dog B says to minus his dog for going to a different tree and coming back. Dog A is still on tree. Dog C's owner barely shined the tree at all, we voted to circle it. it was a Huge mess in there. after we voted coon was seen. Tree is still circled no plus awarded.

3rd drop: drop dogs, dog A and B take off. C sits at our feet. owner wants to walk his dog in the woods more cause she needs direction.... i mention, well the other dogs are gone.... I start the 30 minutes on the dog for failure to hunt. 25 minutes goes by, Dog A is struck in and soon followed by a tree call.Dog B is struck in deeper. Dog C runs off in that direction. The 2 is started on Dog A and is minused when the 2 expired. Dog C gets in and is struck and treed where dog A was. dog A comes back and trees and is called in for 2nd. 5 expires we walk in to a tree that you can fit your hand around. Dog A and B come in and are minused. owner of dog C shines the tree which you could see the WHOLE thing.... he proceeds to shine for the whole 10 minutes trying to waste hunting time for the rest of the cast because this minus puts him at 475 and out of the hunt. Tree is minused.

dog A and B continue the hunt Dog C and owner left. We made 1 more circle tree that night. Now should i have scratched him for being unsportsman like or what i did was right? oh he also stated that they are just gonna screw me cause they are boyfriend/girlfriend. well i didn't pick my cast, he was hunting a dog with different peoples names on it and i minused his dog and mine. no favoritism going on at all....

Thanks

__________________
Alex Rain
Tree Slammin Redbones

GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Auringer's Tree Slammin Brodie HTX
-Qualified for 2013 world hunt

NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Tree Slammin MN Tuff
Pass towards HTX
WCH CH'PR' Tree Slammin Gracie

sounds like that person needs to learn his nite hunt rules. and i would have scratched him for being unsportsman like, sure hate when people like that are in a cast.

how long total did dog c sit at you feet ????

__________________
If You Cant Stand Behide Our Troops ,Then Try Standing In Front Of Them
Jim Hill 651-775-1783

Been following these walker dogs since 1983,and love every min of it !!!!





http://minnesotastatecoonhunters.webs.com/

Use SunSpot Lights, so bright its like the sun came out at night !!!

dog should of been scratched for non hunting.

__________________
TREEDAWG KENNELS

GRCH GRNTCH CARGILLS JEWELL

SOUNDS LIKE THE GUY WAS A REAL A HOLE HE DEFINETLY COULD HAVE BEEN SCRATCHED., BUT GOOD JOB TO YOU ON KEEPING YOUR COOL AND BEING A FAIR JUDGE.

__________________
CORY & SASHA HALL

FCH WCH GRCH ZUUL
2021 AUTUMN OAKS BEST OF SHOW
2021 WORLD CHAMPION PLOTT
2021 OHIO STATE OVERALL SHOW CHAMPION
2022 WINTER CLASSIC CH PLOTT
2022 MICHIGAN STATE OVERALL SHOW
CHAMPION
2023 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPION OVER ALL SHOW WINNER
2023 AUTUMN OAKS NRGCH PLOTT MALE
2024 GRAND AMERICAN GRCH PLOTT

GRNITECH CH LATE NIGHT BREAKING DAWN
2021 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX WINNER
2022 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX WINNER
2023 AUTUMN OAKS NGRNCH PLOTT & HIGH SCORING PLOTT


GRNITECH2 GRWCH3 GRFCH3 GRCH3 HALL'S LATE NIGHT TRACKER
2019 AUTUMN OAKS 7th PLACE & HIGH SCORING PLOTT
2019 MICHIGAN STATE HUNT 3RD PLACE
2019 N.P.H.A. HIGH SCORING DOG OF THE YEAR
2020 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPION OVERALL STATE HUNT WINNER
2021 A.PA. COON DOG OF THE YEAR
2021 GRAND AMERICAN DUAL CH & GRCH PLOTT X2
2022 WINTER CLASSIC CAST WINNER
2022 MICHIGAN STATE HUNT 5TH PLACE
2022 PLOTT DAYS CAST WINNER
2022 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPIONSHIP OVERALL STATE SHOW & FIELD TRIAL WINNER
2022 N.P.H.A. OPP. SEX HIGH SCORING DOG OF THE YEAR
2023 PLOTT DAYS CAST WINNER
2023 AUTUMN OAKS DUAL CHAMPION CAST WINNER 3RD PLACE OVER ALL
2025 PLOTT DAYS 1ST PLACE HIGH SCORONG GRANDNITECH

ACHA GRNITECH/GRNITECH GRWCH GRFCH GRCH HALL'S LATE NIGHT MAGIC
2013,14 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX WINNER
2012,13,14 AUTUMN OAKS CAST WIN & HIGH SCORING PLOTT FEMALE
2012 NPHA HIGH SCORING DOG OF THE YEAR
2013 NPHA HIGH SCORING OPP. SEX DOG OF THE YEAR
2012 ACHA STATE RACE WINNER
2013 PLOTT DOGS.COM CHAMPION
2014 MICHIGAN STATE YOUTH CHAMPION OVER ALL STATE HUNT WINNER

NITECH GRWCH GRFCH GRCH HALL'S RENEGADE RAMBO HTX
2011 YOUTH WORLD ALL AROUND CHAMPION
2011 WORLD CHAMPION PLOTT
2011 KING OF PLOTT DAYS
TOP 10 BREED WINNER

FCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH LATE NIGHTS SOUTHERN SCARLETT
2017 PURINA RACE BREED WINNER
2017,18 QUEEN OF PLOTT DAYS
2017 WISCONSIN STATE CHAMPION
2018 GRAND AMERICA OVER ALL FEMALE
2018 WINTER CLASSIC OVER ALL GRCH FEMALE
2018 TOP 10 BREED WINNER

NITECH WCH CH LATE NIGHT IMPRESSIVE TAP OUT
2024 ISAIAH KIDD OPP. SEX
2024 AKC YOUTH RESERVE WORLD NITE HUNT CHAMPION

It's been a long,long time since i've hunted in a hunt but I believe the rule states you are supposed to move in the direction the dogs are cast,if a handler request it.

oldsouth

she stated that his dog was lyin at his feet and he wanted to head toward the other dogs.sounds like mhis dog wouldnt hunt until it was walked close to the other dogs.

__________________
fred harroun
319-325-3786
Plotts
NPHA
APA

the dog sat at our feet alot, but i could never get the 30 min on it cause it would run off to the other dogs. and yes he only wanted to move because he said the dog needed direction when the other 2 dogs where gone. I didn't know if i did everything correct or not i haven't judged a ton of casts!

__________________
Alex Rain
Tree Slammin Redbones

GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Auringer's Tree Slammin Brodie HTX
-Qualified for 2013 world hunt

NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Tree Slammin MN Tuff
Pass towards HTX
WCH CH'PR' Tree Slammin Gracie

Alex,

They way I understand everything written, I'd say you judged correctly. Only difference is I would have applied the 30 earlier in the hunt and not waited until the 3rd drop.

I don't know who you drew out with or who was in the cast, so I'm not partial to anyone. I'm sure there is always another side to the story.

If you drew out with Josh, that is fine too. As far as I know, most your dogs old enough to hunt are still owned by you guys individually, not together. Per UKC rules this is allowed.

It would be a cold day in hell before I'm walking anyone's dog anywhere if I don't have to. If dogs are out trailing and can be heard well enough from where you are, I'd object ever walking closer just for a lazy dog to go hunting. If you have to walk in order to judge the dogs out working, then fine but if you're walking just to get a lazy dog out from under your feet, as far as I'm concerned that's cheating.

Sounds like you had a bad hunt, but as far as I could tell you judged it honestly and did a pretty good job judging.

thanks marc. and i think i did put it on him earlier but stopped it cause it ran off to the other dogs... i didn't know how that worked if you keep it running and just pause it or what so i just stopped it altogether.

__________________
Alex Rain
Tree Slammin Redbones

GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Auringer's Tree Slammin Brodie HTX
-Qualified for 2013 world hunt

NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Tree Slammin MN Tuff
Pass towards HTX
WCH CH'PR' Tree Slammin Gracie

I think you did a good job. Old trick to walk towards hunting dogs hoping a non hunting dog will go out and check them breaking the 30 min.

__________________
Ignorance: the lack of knowledge, education, etc.
Stupidity: lacking normal intelligence.
Intelligence: the ability to learn or understand.
You can't fix STUPID!

Sounds like you scored it right to me. The only thing I might have done different was not tell him I minused him for his dog's nose on the ground. I would just have told him I minused your dog for leaving the tree when it barked up a different tree.

__________________
Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
But Looking To The Future...

Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

Very good point HOBO. "Nose to the ground" is in the same catagory as " canopy of the tree", it doesn't exist in the rulebook. The rule used to minuse dogs that aren't treeing satisfactorily is rule 4(c) and that rule states dogs are minused when the dog "leaves the tree". If they are there and they bark atleast once every 2 minutes, they are good. Nose to the ground, nose on the wood, nose in their ass, the rules don't mandate how a dog trees. If they are there and barking, they shouldn't be minused. When that dog barked on the other tree, it has left and is minused. It sounds like the judgeing was handled very well.

thank you. i did explain that i minused the dog for leaving the tree and he freaked out saying the dog would come to meet him which it never went to him... but i'm glad at least i handled it all right.

__________________
Alex Rain
Tree Slammin Redbones

GRWCH GRNITECH GRCH 'PR' Auringer's Tree Slammin Brodie HTX
-Qualified for 2013 world hunt

NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' Tree Slammin MN Tuff
Pass towards HTX
WCH CH'PR' Tree Slammin Gracie

Sounds like every dog in the cast should have stayed home for a little more training. If a handler requests to walk forward do it, if the dog won't hunt standing still it won't hunt walking it, if it does then so be it. Once you start the non working dog rule on the dog keep it on it until the dog proves that it is hunting, just because it leaves the casts feet doesn't mean you stop the 30 minutes.

__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

Alex you judged it all right,dont let pukes like this bother you,if you were just tryin to cheat him out you did a bad job since he left the cast early and you still didnt have a cast winner! Some people just gotta blame there dogs faults on somebody else!

Sounds like you need to learn the rules a little better! Kinda looks to me like 2 of the dogs did just fine just got in some bad luck findin the coon!

quote:

---

Originally posted by CWS
Sounds like every dog in the cast should have stayed home for a little more training. If a handler requests to walk forward do it, if the dog won't hunt standing still it won't hunt walking it, if it does then so be it. Once you start the non working dog rule on the dog keep it on it until the dog proves that it is hunting, just because it leaves the casts feet doesn't mean you stop the 30 minutes.

---

U judged that cast the right way and thanks for judging for us last night. Chad

quote:

---

Originally posted by Epson
sounds like that person needs to learn his nite hunt rules. and i would have scratched him for being unsportsman like, sure hate when people like that are in a cast.

---

__________________
Home of: " The Dirty Rat" 10th Place 2008 UKC World and M and L Kennels. Registered Treeing Walkers since 1977.

I'm no pro

But I do think all cast members should arrive at the tree at the same time. I'm in no way questioning what you saw, but it takes the guess work out of the situation with a handler that doesn't want to believe what you saw.
Another thing to remember when serving as a hunting judge is that you carry the card, and keep scores, but all decisions are a majority of cast vote. You don't have to put all the pressure on yourself. Just say the dog was off the tree and barking on the ground and another tree, time for a vote....

Sorry Tully, a hunting judge makes all decisions except scoring a tree and calling time out. Also the judge WILL be the first to the tree by UKC rules, it is very important to the correct judging of a cast. If I'm judging I tell the cast members at the start that if you beat me to the tree,you can beat me to the truck!

It sounds to me like the cast was judged fairly.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Tough judging

Sounds like you did a great job maintaining the integrity of the cast. I agree with one of the other guys, you should have just minused the dog for leaving the tree when it started on another track or when it barked up another tree.

As far as walking, nobody can say that the dog is lazy and that is why it is not hunting. My guess is that this guy walks with his dog when he hunts, and that is what he is accustomed to. Dogs like this require you to be moving, so they think that you are hunting. I suppose that is one good thing about PKC, you can request the cast to walk. In UKC, you really need a dog that just free casts and hunts with no owner interaction and no "checking in".

From your description, it sounds like this is was a young dog with the "ME TOO"disease. It must have been a little annoying to watch that dog get first tree all night.

Keep judging casts, it sounds like you are the right type of gu for the job.

__________________
FC NH

GRFCH NITECH GRWCH GRCH 'PR' CHASES JUNKYARD BLUE GOOSE

Me too dogs do not get first tree. I had a female that used to sit by my my feet and wait for another dog to strike, she would then run in that direction and blow the sox off a track and be first every time. it was actually very annoying because I got last strike every time.

__________________
Some day when I gro up I want to be a professional coon hunter.

Sounds like you did a good job judging the cast.

__________________
Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
GRNITECH GRCH'PR'SPIKE'S TWILITE HOOKER
'PR'PRANCER'S GETTIN DOWN N DIRTY (PrancerxHooker)
NITECH CH’PR’BUELL’S BLUE ROCKY(Whitey x Spice)
CKC BBPIG MARIES BABY BREEZE

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Very good point HOBO. "Nose to the ground" is in the same catagory as " canopy of the tree", it doesn't exist in the rulebook. The rule used to minuse dogs that aren't treeing satisfactorily is rule 4(c) and that rule states dogs are minused when the dog "leaves the tree". If they are there and they bark atleast once every 2 minutes, they are good. Nose to the ground, nose on the wood, nose in their ass, the rules don't mandate how a dog trees. If they are there and barking, they shouldn't be minused. When that dog barked on the other tree, it has left and is minused. It sounds like the judgeing was handled very well.

---

__________________
Dean Jamerson