UKC Forums - Angulation info direct from UKC

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-- Angulation info direct from UKC (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=363052)

Posted by skyblu on 07-08-2010 12:44 PM:

Angulation info direct from UKC

http://www.ukcdogs.com/WebSite.nsf/...ght=0,45,degree

This is one of the BEST descriptions of judging that illustrates angulation that you're going to find.

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Posted by skyblu on 07-08-2010 02:15 PM:

Why

Why do most Nite Champions have better angulation than bench show winners?
COMPARE!

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-08-2010 02:27 PM:

This is a Breed that several hundred of years old that was Bred for Ability and Conformation hand and hand ..

I'm a Inspector and Judge in another KC .. And these are the Line I'm Looking for and sim. to what was stated in the other post ..

These photos are of my hound in a Natural State as She Stoped Movement .. She is Over Erect in both Photos cuz She was watching the other hounds hunting .. But Her body lines are shown well ..

As you can see in both Photos the Angle of the Pasteur
in relation to the up right fore leg .. Any Strighter a Pasteur
couses Shock to the Shoulder ..

Heres a 1940 Photo of "Scout" Bill Greens Hound .. He's a Big Hound but has all the Proper Lines and the flex in the pasteur ..
No Post Leg .. This hound could pound out tracks for Days !!

So They don't need to look like a Grayhound to be Built Correct ..

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Posted by corky crowder on 07-08-2010 05:58 PM:

GOOD POST

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 07-08-2010 06:38 PM:

Those are good looking well built hounds.

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Posted by Family on 07-08-2010 06:43 PM:

yes thanks. The point is a better hound. regardless of who is showing it.

congradulations to everyone.
now lets better the breed.

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Posted by chellesboys on 07-08-2010 06:53 PM:

exactly why all of my dogs that i show in the all breed ring are out of old hunting lines that can still track, not just tree.
& why i don't bench show. :-)

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-08-2010 07:02 PM:

But I would like to see all those lines on a hound Before their "Stacked Up On The Bench"

But their hard to see when their Trotted up and Back real fast .. They need to Slow it down abit and judge needs to look for the side lines also, You can't Judge the total Flex from the Front and Rear

Posted by rmcmillan on 07-09-2010 03:33 AM:

MAJESTIC, I WOULD LIKE THE WAY YOU JUDGE. TO MANY OF THE BENCH SHOW ONLY DOGS AND THERE HANDLERS ARE TO GOOD AT STACKING THEM TO MAKE THEM LOOK GOOD.

I LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW ONLY HANDLERS WHEN THEY COME TO THE SMALL SHOWS. THEY WALK AROUND AND ACT LIKE THEY ARE ALL THAT. TALKING TO EVERYONE ABOUT ALL THERE BIG SHOW WINS ( MOST OF THE GUYS AT THE LOCAL CLUBS COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE SHOWS). BUT WHEN THEY GET BEAT, THEY TURN REAL ARROGANT AND WILL LEAVE INSTEAD OF MORE TALKING.

WHAT ABOUT THE SHOW CLICKS THAT HAVE BEEN TALKED ABOUT, HECK THEY CAN NOT EVEN GET ALONG WITH THERE OWN.

WELL ENOUGH VENTING AND I KINDA GOT OFF TRACK. SORRY, LOL.

FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CLASS AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS OF DOGS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HUNTED AND ENTERED IN HUNTS.

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Posted by Jim Martinson on 07-09-2010 07:33 AM:

There is its called dual champoin class

FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CLASS AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS OF DOGS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HUNTED AND ENTERED IN HUNTS. [/B][/QUOTE]

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-09-2010 03:32 PM:

I had to do abit of Searching to Find ex. what angle you should be looking for and found the Quote

"The pastern has a length of approximately 1/3 of the forearm;
the angle between them is 20° to 22°.
A weak pastern (angle more than 22°) or a steep pastern (angle less than
20°) affect the dog’s working suitability, especially his endurance."

But another "Kennel Club" when requarding the Treeing Walker says "Slightly Slanting"

Forequarters
Forelegs – Straight and parallel to each other, from elbow to pastern. Pastern, from the joint to the top of the foot is strong and distinct, slightly slanting but standing almost perpendicular to the ground. Faults – out at the elbow, crooked forelegs, weak pasterns, knuckling over.

Posted by rmcmillan on 07-09-2010 05:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Martinson
There is its called dual champoin class

FINALLY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A CLASS AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS OF DOGS THAT WERE ACTUALLY HUNTED AND ENTERED IN HUNTS.

[/B][/QUOTE] BUT IS IT AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS? WORLD, AO, ALL BREED DAYS, GRAND AMERICAN ETC. ????

Posted by SCBluetickGal on 07-09-2010 06:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rmcmillan

BUT IS IT AT ALL MAJOR SHOWS? WORLD, AO, ALL BREED DAYS, GRAND AMERICAN ETC. ???? [/B][/QUOTE]

I can't speak for ALL breed days...but yes, there is a dual champions class at Grand American, Winter Classic, and Autumn Oaks. I know they have duals at Walker Days, and I believe I've seen results from some of the other breed days as well. I like the duals class myself, though my own dual CH is nothing I personally would put on a bench in public

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Posted by Sandi on 07-11-2010 09:54 PM:

great post needs to say at the top!

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Posted by Sandi on 07-23-2010 06:06 PM:

btt

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Posted by Cleo on 07-23-2010 07:23 PM:

Steve,

I am going to take some pics of my female hound and send them to you. I want you to judge her for me.

She is out of hunting stock/show stock. She is a big girl, not fat by any means, just a big female.

Thanks. I have wondered many times about this. I think there are some lessons in this some of the "bench show" judges need to be looking over.....

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-23-2010 07:47 PM:

I would be glad too !! Sometimes its tough to see the Joints to do the Angulation from a photo .. A good Relaxed photo in a natural position helps to see them.

Posted by Cleo on 07-23-2010 07:55 PM:

I will take them of her while she is just "out".
I don't care about the stacking part of it. Anyone can show a dog. I want her to show herself.

Thanks. My new camera is going to be here on Monday. I'll try it out and send you some to look at for me.

Posted by Jim Martinson on 07-24-2010 05:18 AM:

Posted by rowdyhound on 07-24-2010 02:56 PM:

He's a bit throaty and his head is kinda big but other than that he's pretty good. He moves nice AND can tree a coon when I let him

Good post Sonia.

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-24-2010 03:18 PM:

He sure looks good. !!

He has a real good mesurment from the tip of his nose to the stop and is equal from his stop to the back of skull.

His Ears are hung just right and have a very good length and I really like the roll ..

He shows some angulation in the pasturn ..

His Shoulder Angle is Very good at a sharp 90^s

But His Fore leg is a bit long stacking him a bit high in the front

His top line is great with a slight arch in the loin .

Lungs and rib look very good showing a Great lung Capacity
They extend to his elbows and well back before aching up to his mid line .

His Rump and Hips look strong .

His rear angulation looks good even tho he's slightly exended ..

What a Great looking hound !!

Posted by skyblu on 07-24-2010 03:57 PM:

One of my favorites in this area

I have always admired this hound Jessica.
Good critique Majestic.
Now all we need to do is
EDUCATE THE BENCH SHOW JUDGES ON CORRECT
CONFORMATION
and use those who KNOW CONFORMATION &
DISREGARD "NAME" HANDLERS & ADVERTSIED WINNERS.
A BSJ should be able to recognize correct conformation & should be able to evaluate dogs on the ground and on the bench regardless of handlers' skills on the bench. The artificial, "stand on toenails", straight shoulders, straight rears, post legs, shallow chests, lack of prosternum development should be recognized and NOT rewarded.

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 07-24-2010 04:28 PM:

Here is his Mark-Up and you can see the Slightly Long Fore Leg
I would guess maybe 3/4" ..

Look See even his X-Ray Looks Good .... LOL

Posted by skyblu on 07-24-2010 05:33 PM:

Dual Champion Class

I would like to see a Dual Champion Class offered at EVERY bench show and a title awarded after 5 wins under THREE DIFFERENT BENCH SHOW JUDGES.

Also, I'd like to see an additional NiteCh & GrNtCh category added at every bench show - could be divided as to Jr/Sr & Veteran (over 7 years) in those categories and then compete for Best working Coonhound, with points awarded accordingly for a title. Maybe THEN we'd get more correct hounds on the bench & some of the coonhunters would feel more welcome participating at bench shows.

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Posted by rowdyhound on 07-24-2010 08:40 PM:

THANKS!!! I really like him and would like to see what he'll produce.

Skyblu I agree I can't understand why judges pick dogs that are board straight in the rear with bad chest and so on.

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