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Score This Mess

Three dog cast. All dogs stuck in. A 100 B 75 C50.Dog a treed125 to the right. Dog b 75 and c 50 tree to the left send dog b's handler and dog c's back up handler to tie up dog b and c at tree. Handler a and c score dog a. Go to score dog c and b. Can't find them no dogs barking.Hear them calling their dogs.Walk to where they are find them with their dogs.Handler of dog b has him on a leash. dog c's back up handler has his dog on a leash.Dogs are not treed they are with a land owner who's land we don't have permission to hunt on.He wants us off his land.But he's not mad he says he understands he use to coon hunt.But dog b and c are weak ass tree dogs as they only treed a couple mintues then left.

Kinda sounds like interference but they were handled so that would mean scratch.

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John Rump
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If'n their dogs are declared treed (and you typed that they were) then if you are calling your dog...you are scratched....that is encouraging the hound. If they are treed..then they need to be showing treed.....now so what that they left the tree....simply minus them and let the hunt continue, but when you call your hound or handle your hound and they are holding a position in the hunt time...they are scratched.

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dog a has A first tree 125.....dogs B and C are split from A.. dog B also is treed for 125 and C is treed for 75. if indeed those two are treed on the same tree. if they left, those 2 dogs are minused tree points. if they then are interferd with by a land owner. i would say they are not to be scrached for trying to catch the dogs. that would be a sinario that the judge make a call to call interferance time out and line would be drawn through strike points.
.. also you need the majority of the cast to score a tree.

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JAMES RIVER HOUND KENNEL
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Dogs left before land owner showed up or did land owner try and run them off?

common sense has to prevail. interference, and non permitted land are both very good reasons to call time out, delete the strikes/ trees of these dogs, thank the owner for his understanding, and find new permitted ground to cast on. seems fair and honest to me. the real unfortunate thing here, is mentality of some hunters. SCRATCH at all cost. To be a real sportsman requires one to learn the intended use of a rule, as well as the rule itself. Does any true sportsman here believe, that in the above situation, the rule committees intended for the dogs to be scratched? Come on guys, stop trying to be lawyers while we hunt, and enjoy the sport of it. I bet you will have a lot less ulcers, and a heep more friends because of it. My opinion only.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
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I would think no tree should had been judged till you handled all dog and the cast got back together and scored the tree's.
I think you can handle/ call your dog if it is in danger and a unhappy land owner can be dangerous.
I would say call interfearance and go drop again..........If they dumped out on land were they didn't have permission I think there is a rule on that but I don't know the punishment for doing it...............

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I would delete everything for B and C.

Guys, common sense and sportsmanship are only meaningful when you apply them to the rules.

If you try to apply common sense and sportsmanship before the rules you will get anarchy. I have seen more people cry foul to those two words than anything else.

That being said, yes, I do believe both are commendable traits, but without the rules as a guide they fall under the category of best intentions.

The rules do fit this situation very well.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

I for got there was only 3 dogs. I guess they had the majority to score the tree. The other two would get minused for leaveing the tree. Then interfearance and move?

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Grady Jarvis
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quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
I would delete everything for B and C.

---

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When a landowner says get out, that tree is unscoreable. That means all you can do is delete.

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
When a landowner says get out, that tree is unscoreable. That means all you can do is delete.

---

__________________
UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

im confused did the landowner push the dogs off the tree? or were they handled and then land owner showed up then the rest of the cast and judge showed up? if the landowner was there before the cast and judge they could have been trying to call there dogs across the property line or if they were treed maybe the landowner showed up and they were not calling there dogs but yelling at them trying to hush them up so they could talk to the landowner i would have to say delete all points on b & c and call interferance and move.



another thing you say handler c went with you and judge and his backup handler went to handle the dog? i was under the impression that only the handler of the dog could handle the dog

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Josh Nettleton 601-748-2102

Maybe I didn't understand the question correctly. The part that made me say "delete" was this:"Dogs are not treed they are with a landowner who's land we don't have permission to hunt" I took that to mean the landowner took the dogs off the tree. That makes it a delete for those dogs as I see it.

b and c left the tree that's why we hear them calling there dogs the landowner says he hear the dogs tree then leave.Then walked out of his house to the two the guys calling there dogs.The guys say they grabbed there dogs at the tree but they both slipped thier collars and ran off and thats why they where calling there dogs.When the judge arrived both dogs where on the leash

If they can't put collars on they have more problems than getting scratched or deleated..........LOL

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UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

Minus tree points!!! Why were they calling the hounds before the land owner came out?

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Again we have a post, with informaion changing as it is written. For accurate, and correct help and answers to be given, all details of the event must be given. Apparently here, someone should have known not to turn out where they were. Sounds like it was close to the other guys land, however, it could have been miles from where they turned out first too. Who Knows? Does it matter? In the above case, no. The dogs, and the handlers are trespassing. When we read on here, and in our papers etc..., about dogs being shot, disappearing and otherwise, those guys should thank the owner for his understanding, and get out of dodge. No scoring situtation needed.Things are just to shabby in details to determine all the facts from the above. One thing that did concern me a little was the fact that two handlers scored A's tree, without the handler of C. Yes, they had a majorority, but B and C, should have been tied back, and C's handler returned to cast for A's scoring. The back up guy has nothing to do with the cast. he could have stayed with the dogs, or returned. It really doesn't matter. Sounds to me things started wrong, and just went worse from there. Could handler of C question the scoring of the tree? Absolutely. Not on if two saw a coon or not, but on hard fact the rule was broken in that he was denied an opportunity to help in scoring. What happens if A and B split on the scoring? How can C vote, which is rule required? he can't. The trespassing was just icing on the cake for a cast that was off on the wrong foot from get go.

NOTE: i just re-read---It was C's back up handler, but the principals are the same.

__________________
Robert " Rock" Johnson

Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
UKC Grand Nite Champion "PR" Yadkin River Addkis. Deceased 12/11/2016 RIP

2009/2010/2011/2012 AKC GA. State Leader and Supreme Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

2010 ACHA Georgia State Champion Grand Nite Champion Yadkin River Addkis

PKC Champion Yadkin River Addkis

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Johnson
common sense has to prevail. interference, and non permitted land are both very good reasons to call time out, delete the strikes/ trees of these dogs, thank the owner for his understanding, and find new permitted ground to cast on. seems fair and honest to me. the real unfortunate thing here, is mentality of some hunters. SCRATCH at all cost. To be a real sportsman requires one to learn the intended use of a rule, as well as the rule itself. Does any true sportsman here believe, that in the above situation, the rule committees intended for the dogs to be scratched? Come on guys, stop trying to be lawyers while we hunt, and enjoy the sport of it. I bet you will have a lot less ulcers, and a heep more friends because of it. My opinion only.

---

__________________
BARRY GREEN
CELL#- 205-337-5086
suthernblues@gmail.com

score

8.5 on a scale of 1-10.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Guys, common sense and sportsmanship are only meaningful when you apply them to the rules.

If you try to apply common sense and sportsmanship before the rules you will get anarchy. I have seen more people cry foul to those two words than anything else.

That being said, yes, I do believe both are commendable traits, but without the rules as a guide they fall under the category of best intentions.

The rules do fit this situation very well.

---

__________________
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BLACK RIVER REDBONES
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score this

as a former master of hounds they only way I would render any decision on this is to speak to all parties involved and then weigh what I have heard. Were the dogs at the tree, were they off the tree, when did the landowner show up, etc., etc, etc. If dogs were not on the tree, minus pts. when you get on posted property or land you don't permission to be on and a dangerous situation for dogs and hunters call time out gather dogs and get out of there. Dogs caught off a track must be minused, too.

Jay Brademeyer I totally agree with your scoring the post implies that the handlers went to score the 2 dogs and they had left the tree and the handlers began calling the dogs because a land owner told them to get the dogs and get off his property. real plain and real simple

All dogs should have been handled and all handlers should have went to score all trees. This is the kind of stuff you get into when you only send part of the cast to do what the whole cast should be doing. Simply put, your not there and don't know what might have happened before you got there. The guide knowing dogs B and C were near property he didn't have permission to be on should have said we need to get to those dogs first, because they are on or near property I don't have permission to hunt. Going by what you have wrote on here, dogs B and C left before they could be handled, but I also didn't see where two minutes was ran on the tree. The cast needs to stay together. This is just another example of a question we see on this board alot. The cast sends a person here and some more over here and next thing you know a judge is put in a position to make a call when he wasn't even there to see what really happened. My answer to your question would be this, you didn't have all cast members to score dog A's tree, the cast was sent different directions, and there was never a proper two minute time ran on dogs B and C. Teach the judges how to delegate handling of dogs and scoring of trees and how to run time and you won't have as many questions.

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