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-- todd, Allen , please read, need a rule change, or explanation (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=343435)

todd, Allen , please read, need a rule change, or explanation

this past weekend i was at the rqe at peru, now before i give you the scenario congrats terry and roscoe. i lost my cast by 50 but only due to this ruling that makes no sense,

four dog cast, A strikes for 100 , B for 75, C for 50, D for 25
big section A takes a track and moves thru the country right handed getting deep, in the mean time C trees left handed and in the front of the section B also trees in with C , while letting the five run down on C, and B we here D come treed behind us on the creek, handler of D trees him , also note A is still opening just about ever ten seconds and still taking the track on, we go in to score C, B, C has his nose on the ground and B is the only one Treeing, We score B and he is slick while scoring the tree C split trees not but fifteen yards from where we are standing and handler retrees him, So being so close to other tree we score C quick and he has a coon , B and C are recasted on A who is still holding 100 strike and moving through the country deep but working on getting treed, we go and score D back up by the trucks D has a Coon also, we walk back towards the other three dogs, and B strikes left handed and Deep so he goes back in for 100 now not ten seconds later A falls treed and he is put on the card so he has 100 strike 125 tree , now B never makes another bark comes in to A 's treek and backs him so B scores 100 strike and 75 tree, here is the problem how can you award two dogs 100 strike , and give B a 100 if he goes in and backs another dog , just because two coons have been scored.

this needs adressed and changed, possible reward a hound after two coons scored a hundred strike only if he splits not backs,

I lost the cast by fifty and if B would have went in for 25 i win the cast by 25

this needs looked at thanks



Dan

__________________
Nt champion skuna River Mr. Music. ( at stud)
Handled of GR. NT Champions skuna Rivers Stylish Peanut
Handler of Doc Holiday At Sundown RIP DOC you will be missed
Thanks Stetzels,


Honesty wins hunts

Dan
There is a rule proposal ready for a vote that would eliminate this from happening. We will have to wait till Autumn Oaks to see if it gets passed.
call all the breed reps and let them know you want it changed.

You dont always re open strike after 2 coon have been scored..We learned that on here a while back It can cause a whole play by play to get deleted lol.......

__________________
Michael Ghorley

thanks elvis and , ga dawg give me an example ,

__________________
Nt champion skuna River Mr. Music. ( at stud)
Handled of GR. NT Champions skuna Rivers Stylish Peanut
Handler of Doc Holiday At Sundown RIP DOC you will be missed
Thanks Stetzels,


Honesty wins hunts

How does dog B recieve 100 strike if dog A is currently holding the first strike position. Shouldnt B be struck in for the next available strike position.

2. POINT SYSTEM:

(a) 100 points for dog that opens first; 75 points second; 50 points third; 25 points fourth. If a dog is turned back in on a trail that is being worked, he gets the next available position. If all positions are taken, he gets 25 points. All dogs must be off leash in order for any dog to receive 100 strike points.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dbradbury3
thanks elvis and , ga dawg give me an example ,

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__________________
Michael Ghorley

quote:

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Originally posted by DustinS
2. POINT SYSTEM:

(a) 100 points for dog that opens first; 75 points second; 50 points third; 25 points fourth. If a dog is turned back in on a trail that is being worked, he gets the next available position. If all positions are taken, he gets 25 points. All dogs must be off leash in order for any dog to receive 100 strike points.

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Wow there that rule is. Ok what if after an hour of hunting and a "non working" dog is out and a dog is struck, and called for 100, and ok heres the catch theres a dog handled and on a lead. Can the dog still recieve 100, or does rule 1a (All dogs must be off leash in order for any dog to receive 100 strike points.) apply.

dustin you would have to determine that you have a non working dog if you have a hound that keeps opening , it would be pretty hard to determine that, unless the hound came to your feet and stood there for thirty minutes,

__________________
Nt champion skuna River Mr. Music. ( at stud)
Handled of GR. NT Champions skuna Rivers Stylish Peanut
Handler of Doc Holiday At Sundown RIP DOC you will be missed
Thanks Stetzels,


Honesty wins hunts

Ga Dawg im not sure waht you mean exactly if a hound is struck for 100 and moves through the country , and two other hounds go in for 75 and 50 then both them hounds cut back loose on the hound that is running one of the two is going back in for a 100 , whiich is not a bad thing unless the go back the hound that is keeping the 100 alive, which this is what happened to me

__________________
Nt champion skuna River Mr. Music. ( at stud)
Handled of GR. NT Champions skuna Rivers Stylish Peanut
Handler of Doc Holiday At Sundown RIP DOC you will be missed
Thanks Stetzels,


Honesty wins hunts

I think some are not stopping to think

the idea is to get treed. In the whole scope of things, is it fair to keep turning dogs back in for 50 or 25 when there is a dog that is just out there holding strike open? I had a dog for a short time a few years ago that would absolutely not stop at the first coon up. He would mill around until he found another track going on. He could hold a strike open for 2 hours straight. Was it fair to the other dogs in his cast to having to recast to him without the scoring 2 coon rule? But I have seen the same rule back fire. 3 dogs strike. One takes the sow track and the other 2 pop up kittens in 2 separate trees and cast back in for 100 and 75, 10 minutes into the hunt.

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Dan, I no you are not saying anything bad towards me i enjoyed are hunt but you said that if i didnt strike for 100 you would have won. That is not true u was struck for 100 the other 3 dogs was turned back loose and i struck even if they didnt have that 2 coon rule i would have struck back in for 75 and i would have beat you by 25.

quote:

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Originally posted by terry coulter
Dan, I no you are not saying anything bad towards me i enjoyed are hunt but you said that if i didnt strike for 100 you would have won. That is not true u was struck for 100 the other 3 dogs was turned back loose and i struck even if they didnt have that 2 coon rule i would have struck back in for 75 and i would have beat you by 25.

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Estep, He treed him win we started shining my tree then we walked the minute, we waited the 5

STRIKE REOPEN 2 COON WERE SCORE.

Why did you walk a minute and then start the five? The five should have been started as soon as the dog was called treed. And I didn't know you had to walk a certain time in UKC. The dog that was treed slick could have been recast directly from its scored tree and still got tree points on the other one. Maybe I am missing something but looks to me like on this drop A ended up with 225+, B had 25+ after the slick for 150- and backing A for 175+, C got 50+ after leaving a tree 125- and then treeing a coon for 175+, and D gets 150+ for it's efforts. So if the rule wasn't applied B would have ended up with 50- on this drop instead of 25+ and you would have won. Bottom line is this rule caused you to lose and now you don't like it. Every rule any KC uses will cause a "bad break" for hunters every once in a while. You still have to go by them and apply the rules that fit. I am not picking on you but people are always wanting to change the rules when they get bitten by them. I have my fair share of scars from these same rules people want to change. I just keep hunting and when a rule changes I go with it. People wanted a rule so one dog couldn't hold first strike all night and they got it, now they want to change it again. I don't understand the problem. The dog found sitting under the most coons should win regardless of how the rules play out.

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"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." -
-- Theodore Roosevelt



Brian Teague 252-649-3050

congrats terry, i should have just treed before you put him back on the card, thats handler error not the hound haha,



Did you like ol Doc holiday

__________________
Nt champion skuna River Mr. Music. ( at stud)
Handled of GR. NT Champions skuna Rivers Stylish Peanut
Handler of Doc Holiday At Sundown RIP DOC you will be missed
Thanks Stetzels,


Honesty wins hunts

quote:

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Originally posted by terry coulter
Estep, He treed him win we started shining my tree then we walked the minute, we waited the 5

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Rule 7 (non-working dog) was put in the rulebook long before the recast option was added to rule 11. With the recast option, rule 7 is a major problem causer and should prolly be eliminated altogether.

Dan, even though you may not have considered the dog holding first strike as "nonworking" it is in fact considered as such after two coons have been scored while that dog is holding said strike position. After the two coons were scored on Dog A, Rule 7 does in fact allow for all strike positions, including first currently being held by Dog A, to reopen. So in such a scenario you may have more than one dog holding first strike position at the same time.

Elvis is correct in that there is a Rules Change Proposal on the ballot in regards to Rule 7. Matter of fact there are two of them. You'll see them them in the April Issue of Coonhound Bloodlines.

My vote is to eliminate the "two coons" rule but stay with the one hour only when it comes to "nonworking". There I said it. Haha.

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC

My vote is to eliminate the "two coons" rule but stay with the one hour only when it comes to "nonworking".

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__________________
Casey L Clayton
(662) 523-0375
Mantachie, MS

Every single time a dog is struck in on the card, that dogs strike could concievable be under the one hour part of rule 7. I bet the one hour part of that rule has never been used and never will. UKC hunters can't even grasp the concept of running a countdown on the tree. You think they will ever run a 1 hour countdown on every dog that strikes a track? Basicly impossible.

I guess im missing something. I have a at 225+ b with 25+ c with 50+ and d with 150+. C cant recast until d's tree is scored because c was scored out of order and apparently b opted to not recast until after scoring c's tree. If this was the end of the cast a wins with 225+ and d is 2nd.

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Allen

Sounds good. Something has to change to stop the confussion!! Just don't let the Breed reps leave the room until something gets voted in to fix this problem. Take care, Ron.