UKC Forums - improving a dogs accuracy

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-- improving a dogs accuracy (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=328490)

Posted by Mike Mills on 01-24-2010 06:49 PM:

improving a dogs accuracy

Can you improve a dogs accuracy or is it something they are born with? I believe that you can create a slick treeing idiot through improper training but that some dogs are just gonna be that way because of their breeding and that you can do NOTHING to change it.

Posted by Dan Dogs on 01-24-2010 06:54 PM:

Re: improving a dogs accuracy

quote:
Originally posted by Mike Mills
Can you improve a dogs accuracy or is it something they are born with? I believe that you can create a slick treeing idiot through improper training but that some dogs are just gonna be that way because of their breeding and that you can do NOTHING to change it.

all a steer can do, is try!!!

i think if you push the right buttons, most will improve..they may get better with age. when they calm down a little..

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Posted by Mike Mills on 01-24-2010 06:58 PM:

I have seen people try to punish them for slicking but all i have ever seen that accomplish is make them leave the tree at a dead run when you show up even if they have the meat.

Posted by on 01-24-2010 07:02 PM:

Then you haven't had the pleasure of watching a proven coondog trainer in action.

Posted by BRYAN J on 01-24-2010 07:15 PM:

I have never had to deal with slick treeing. I would say if I did I would just scold them and lead them away from the empty tree. Reward them when they do good.

Myself I sure wouldn't beat one for slick treeing!

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Posted by Mike Mills on 01-24-2010 07:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Then you haven't had the pleasure of watching a proven coondog trainer in action.

What "proven" methods have you seen?

Posted by brad606 on 01-24-2010 07:36 PM:

i have seen guys shock them off slick trees and slick tails with good results

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 01-24-2010 07:44 PM:

why try to corrected breeding or a training fault for 1-2 yrs.
i would much rather spend it with a better breed dog.

Posted by Preston Owens on 01-24-2010 07:54 PM:

jmo

Down in these parts lots of hounds tree flying squirrels, and grays. Most folks over look that when they find empty trees. they dont look for the tiny little squirrel that bails out way be4 you get there. If I hunt a dog and its pullin up"short" I hunt them in the evening and see if they will tree a squirrel. if they are you can correct that.

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Posted by toe cutter on 01-24-2010 07:54 PM:

a dog trainer that can make one more accurate is the one
knowing the differance between the dog being on the right tree thats slick and the dog being on the wrong tree thats slick.
you can correct a dog on the wrong tree and make him more accurate. but you got to know what to do and not do when its slick,but it IS the right tree.. it can only improve to the point of what it has bred in and its learned tracking ability (track sense)allows it to.

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Posted by Maniac on 01-24-2010 07:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Then you haven't had the pleasure of watching a proven coondog trainer in action.

JIM YOU GOT THAT RIGHT

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Posted by on 01-24-2010 07:55 PM:

we dont have flying squirrels around here, but if a hound doesnt show improvement with a few light whippings, I dont keep them around...

Posted by trackntreeman on 01-24-2010 07:55 PM:

slick treeing

best thing i've done is put them on some feeder buckets a few drops a week and knock a couple out to em by themselves . then start huntin them on wild coon if they slick get and scold them and send them on they should start picking the tracks back up and maybe will eventually start completing their chases . i done this with a female i own , she came out of it and made a nice dog .

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Posted by Maniac on 01-24-2010 07:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticking: it
why try to corrected breeding or a training fault for 1-2 yrs.
i would much rather spend it with a better breed dog.

I HALF TO AGREE ON THIS

Posted by Coon Spotter on 01-24-2010 09:49 PM:

When training a young

Most tree dogs will tree some slick trees, it is the up to the trainer to let the dog know when the dog has the meat or if the tree is empty. Never reward a dog for treeing on a blank, make sure you let him know when he has the fur. Dog with brains will fiqure it out.

Posted by DOBY on 01-24-2010 09:57 PM:

most slick treeing dogs are created by the owner or trainer of the dog at a early age.if a man gives three hundred or more for a six week old pup and then raise it.all he is wanting,is to see it tree.when it trees it's first tree a lot of hunters pet it up no matter if it has a coon or not, because that is what they paid to see.i have sold pups of my dogs and that is the most asked question(will they tree when they get older).if they are off tree dogs,they are going to tree no matter if you pet them or not.i don't never pet a tree dog.all it does is creat more problems.may make them ill or a slick treeing fool.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 01-24-2010 10:18 PM:

I think most of it has to do with the experience the dog has had when it is trying to hunt dureing it's first rutting season. A lot of differance between a pup that has treed a coon or two and in the middle of kitten season. Then one that has just started at the first of rutt season.
If it is a pup and just missing becouse of inexperience and say it is running a trail north. I walk in, shine the tree, then walk north and tell it. It's not there come on and make it come. Chances are it will hit the same track and maybe even finish it. They can tell the differance between coons and if it hits the same track it finds out it wasn't in that tree. Then when it finds the right tree and gets to see the coon it will check the tree better to see if there is a track leaveing it.
Keep in mind some people would rather have a slick tree than to have a dog take the time to check the tree. Nothing pleases all.

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Posted by WC Preacher on 01-24-2010 11:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Then you haven't had the pleasure of watching a proven coondog trainer in action.

oh great coondog trainer why don't you shead some light on the rest of us hopeless idiots????? I hate people that try to make every one feel stupid when they themselves don't have a clue

Posted by Dogwhisper on 01-25-2010 12:36 AM:

As a trainer I think you can improve their accuracy. To a certain degree.All dogs will tree empty most all there lives. 90% accuracy ratio is my standard.I'm satisfied to see 9 coon out of 10 trees not includeing dens.
I remove all doubt in my mind first. Leaves off hunting, even if I have to lay the dog up for a certain lenght of time.While it's laid up ,I use a mill to measure and improve their concentration level, you will find out just how LAZY that dog really is,real quick.A slick treeing dog is not concentrating on their task.The mill has a way of zeroing in a dogs concentration level.This is one reason I use it. It is in no way the only method to improve accuracy.But this works for me.
If you/I got an idiot (10% accuracy).I hunt it alone.You got to be consistant/severe with the discipline at the empty trees.The degree of consistantcy/severity will dictate how lone it will take you to get your desired results....

Well I'm going coonhunting..........................
I'll try and finish this sometime later , so excuse me.

Posted by WC Preacher on 01-25-2010 12:44 AM:

i seriously doubt a mill helps a dogs accuracy, hunting and working dogs help it not exercise its their nose that fails not their legs

Posted by Velocity on 01-25-2010 12:55 AM:

I know after i know my dogs potential i will scold them or lightly switch them when they pull up short. A young dog or pup i do not pet them up on a slick or empty tree but shine it as quick as i can and leash them up and walk away.I've scene some guys that will pet them up on a tree before checking it or realy work a young dog up on a den,Which i do not condone.But then again the dogs i have hunted have not needed alot of petting up to make a tree dog. Good luck and remember every dog is different

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Posted by Donald G. on 01-25-2010 01:49 AM:

getting the best out of a dog

If I got a young or ( an older dog that has been layed up for a while and is out of shape ) that is pulling up short and slick treeing and I know with out dought that he missed the coon I will catch him by the collar and put a switching on him with a good limb. Then tell him to get ahead and look for that coon. usally the dog will make a loop around the tree and pick the track back up and go tree the coon.( like he should have done first before he pulled up short ). If the dog has good sence and wants to do good he will start checking the tree before he trees. this is just my opion and what works for me , but I have been raising and training dogs for 25 years now. I do believe that a lot of dogs this day and time have way more treeing ability than they do tracking.

thanks, Donald
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Posted by on 01-25-2010 02:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Then you haven't had the pleasure of watching a proven coondog trainer in action.

I will agree with you Jim!

The thing is the dog's will tell you they are wrong once you start gettin after them by the way they come on the tree. Can you hear the difference is the thing. To me that's the dog's way of sayin,"Screw it,I give up so come & get me". Or like i see it,"Come & enforce what I already know".

There was a time when I dealt with the empty plague a lil but it is a thing of the past. 90% accuracy is unexceptable but that's my personal want's & need's. This scalin up the mountain side diggin in & sweatin like a banchy "HOPIN" they have a coon don't fly in these part's.

Yes,some can be over amped thus encouraged to just grab a tree when it get's tough by excessive pettin & cage coonin,seen it.

I would put genetic's rite up there more so though. More are born with that trait than are trained to be that way by an unsuspecting, still gatherin knowledge coonhound enthusiast.

Sure even the best of the best "MIGHT" miss once in a while but 1 outa 10 time's is to much. It is what you expect & make's your goal's full filled. Some can or will tolerate an empty a night & some won't tolerate one in two month's.

Once upon a time way back in the oldin day's I had the misfortune of gettin an adult dog from a chap to attempt to straighten out for him. It didn't matter what I did to that dog that we affectionately called "Loud Cloud" he would still go twenty yards & load up again fully knowin that the long haired dude was comin to give him a hair cut,"AGAIN".

Make a long story short he left the same way he came. I had absolutely no impact on his over zelous desire to unload on every tree in the wood's & I promise you I tried everything I could except what I would have liked to have done. Couldn't get permission from the owner to do that unfortunately so it was what it was while no longer bein my headache.

You can improve accuracy to a degree but if the blood flowin in it's vein's is tellin it to keep on keepin it on you have a challenge on your hand's that will probably keep showin up for the life of the dog.

Posted by BAWL_TRACK on 01-25-2010 02:34 PM:

tree dogs are gonna pull up slick servel times in its life.. an if you dont hunt very offen can make your dogs slick........ dog that you want slick it cause it only runs hott tracks ...JMO

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Posted by on 01-25-2010 03:01 PM:

But there is such a thing as balanced hound's that don't. We breed for balance,breeding for treedawg's is gonna get you just that.

Why just recently we watched by way of them tracker flashing lite thing's a couple of our dog's check & go on past a couple tree's that another loaded up on & had the coon by themselves when they ended it a short time later.

I think a slick treein habitual offender is lack of nose & tracking ability along with a handler that is blind to what their dog is doin more so. "IF" you can't see it & admit it you will alway's be expecting empties.

One of the biggest thing's that hold some back is that lack of ability to admit when their dog screwed up,nature of the beast.

You see people that consistently have a good hound on the end of their lead year after year. Them's the folk's that "Got both eye's open lookin down the road" at all time's "OR" lot's of money...LOL!!

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