UKC Forums - Who trained the last few world ch.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 05:55 AM:

Who trained the last few world ch.

Does anyone know who trained the last few world champions from pup threw there first year or two? Who trained any of the big hunt winners? Wonder if any of them would tell a person how they were as pups. when they were started, how they were started, what kind of drive they had. Maybe set down have coffee and let a person pic there brain. I kow I got tired of that sometimes at search seminars BUT sure wood like to get in the wood with some of these guys or read a little of what they have to say about the dogs as pups.
Oh and did the trainers handle them in the hunts?

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Posted by Majestic Tree H on 11-19-2009 12:39 PM:

Hey Grady when was the last search seminars you Attended ??

Just wondering if you have met Mary Carson and her Hound "Sister" ??

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Posted by Todd Miller on 11-19-2009 12:44 PM:

Reading about some of these World Champs, It seems like they been owned and trained by a number of people. Maybe thats the ticket, a handful of good handlers putting there 2 cents in on a hound.

Posted by john Duemmer on 11-19-2009 01:26 PM:

Excellent Question. Sure would be interesting to read an interview with the guys that started some of the greats. Vicky Lamb would probably be about the only person who could get it done.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 03:10 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
Hey Grady when was the last search seminars you Attended ??

Just wondering if you have met Mary Carson and her Hound "Sister" ??

It has been about 3 years or so. I don't remember the name but I have a terrible memory for names.
There was a girl at the Jacksborrow seminar that had a blue tic that was very inpressive. Had stonch comp. obidence in it and would work just as well. I was talking to someone a while back that new who she was and said she was looking for a pup to start but I forgot her name again. Got to love it. One of these days I will forget were the truck is and just never show up again. ( : prefered way to go though. That or a massive heart attack from eating good food.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 04:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by john Duemmer
Excellent Question. Sure would be interesting to read an interview with the guys that started some of the greats. Vicky Lamb would probably be about the only person who could get it done.

How do you recon we could get ahold of her and do you think we could talk her into it? That would make some great stories for Coonhound Bloodlines.

Posted by josh on 11-19-2009 04:16 PM:

It isnt near as much "training" as some would think...Unless you consider hunting hard "training".... and by hunting hard, I mean much harder than most of us can even comprehend, while being smart enough as to not screw the dog up too bad.

To compare training a search dog to what it takes to make a top notch coondog is apples and oranges. Teaching a dog some parlor tricks has NOTHING to do with its ability to excell at competition.

Of course this is JMO.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 05:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
It isnt near as much "training" as some would think...Unless you consider hunting hard "training".... and by hunting hard, I mean much harder than most of us can even comprehend, while being smart enough as to not screw the dog up too bad.

To compare training a search dog to what it takes to make a top notch coondog is apples and oranges. Teaching a dog some parlor tricks has NOTHING to do with its ability to excell at competition.

Of course this is JMO.

I know they have to be in the woods a lot when they get old enough. I would just like to here how some of the great ones started out.
How many of the great ones have you trained? By the remark I know you have never trained a search and rescue dog. A search dog has to search for hours and some times days with out a hint of scent for what it is searching for.
You find a blood line of hounds that will search for days for a track and you can get rich quick. There is a lot of work in both but just getting a person to go hide for you to train search dogs on makes it harder for me. Finding human body parts to train cadaver dogs on isn't real easy either. Don't have any natural instinct to work with either. All has to be trained and drive built up.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 05:16 PM:

Oh one more thing. If the coon dog doesn't find a coon you just had a bad night. If the search and rescue dog doesn't find what it was looking for SOME ONE JUST LOST THERE KID, GRAND KID, GRAND MA, GRAND PA, MOM OR DAD. NO PREASURE THOUGH.
I will take the fun sport every time. That is why I am here and not there. Burned out and need fun with dogs.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 11-19-2009 05:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
I know they have to be in the woods a lot when they get old enough. I would just like to here how some of the great ones started out.

I think what you would find is that many of them didn't need much more than guidence and woods time. I don't think you teach that caliber of a hound as much as you might think. You might curb its focus a little, but 95% of the training is night after night hunting the dog in all conditions.

Like was said you are talking about two completely differnt things in coondogs and search and rescue.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 05:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Briar
I think what you would find is that many of them didn't need much more than guidence and woods time. I don't think you teach that caliber of a hound as much as you might think. You might curb its focus a little, but 95% of the training is night after night hunting the dog in all conditions.

Like was said you are talking about two completely differnt things in coondogs and search and rescue.

Yea that is like compairing apples to apple carts. lol
I know a coon dog trainer doesn't put a lot of fisical training in. I just think it would be very interesting to see what the carictoristic's of a pup that went on to be one of the best was at a young age.
It would be interesting to see how much if any of it change dureing the first year of hunting other than the obvious.

Posted by elvis on 11-19-2009 08:24 PM:

What won it for me was a young female with incredible drive and a one track mind. She was a started dog that was treeing easy coon when I got her at 12 mnths old. She just kept getting better and better and never lost her focus on what her job was. She would go weeks at a time and tree a coon everytime I put her down.Just like any dog, we hit a few glitches that had to be worked out, but she was quick to learn and eager to please me.
She peaked at the right time and we got lucky and won.

Im also proud of the fact that this years world champion redbone and this years world champion bluetick female went through my kennel. Im a lucky man.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 11-19-2009 08:29 PM:

what did you do Elvis....let them stay there over night before the hunt? just kidding man..i could not help myself....and you are so very right about one thing...you are a lucky man. I would rather be a little bit lucky, than a whole lot good anyday...but for now,,i am neither....lol

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Posted by Autumn Clements on 11-19-2009 09:17 PM:

Elvis how much hunting did you put on Janice or well any other dog you hunt, average amount of nites? how long/how many drops a nite?

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Posted by john Duemmer on 11-19-2009 09:26 PM:

Some place i have about a 3 page story written by the old boy who started and trained lipper. I will see if i can dig it up.

Posted by jculler8 on 11-19-2009 09:57 PM:

what you guys are missing here is that the key is having a dog with drive to please and ability... the quirks elvis is talking about that help you win big hunts usually take more than 1 experienced handler in the woods at the same time.

for example in places of thick coon, you can "train" a dog to not cover and go find its own coon. usually those types of things are done with more than 1 dog and/or with more than 1 handler.

if you're training to win big hunts dogs need to be set up so they can experience EVERY possible situation and the handler can see how the dog acts/reacts and "train" it to act/react how he wants it to...

the good 1s do it on there own the majority of the time...

just my 2 cents tho...

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-19-2009 10:30 PM:

Now that is the kind of posts I am looking for. Thank You Sir.
Any more?
If it is like any other dog training DRIVE is the most important mixture to start with. Then getting it headed toward the right direction. Can't give any thing or body the want to.

Posted by Maniac on 11-20-2009 12:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jculler8
what you guys are missing here is that the key is having a dog with drive to please and ability... the quirks elvis is talking about that help you win big hunts usually take more than 1 experienced handler in the woods at the same time.

for example in places of thick coon, you can "train" a dog to not cover and go find its own coon. usually those types of things are done with more than 1 dog and/or with more than 1 handler.

if you're training to win big hunts dogs need to be set up so they can experience EVERY possible situation and the handler can see how the dog acts/reacts and "train" it to act/react how he wants it to...

the good 1s do it on there own the majority of the time...

just my 2 cents tho...

for example in places of thick coon, you can "train" a dog to not cover and go find its own coon. usually those types of things are done with more than 1 dog and/or with more than 1 handler. ALOT OF YOUR PKC DOGS ARE TRAIN THIS WAY IN THIN COON

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Posted by jculler8 on 11-20-2009 09:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Maniac
for example in places of thick coon, you can "train" a dog to not cover and go find its own coon. usually those types of things are done with more than 1 dog and/or with more than 1 handler. ALOT OF YOUR PKC DOGS ARE TRAIN THIS WAY IN THIN COON

true and its twice as hard to train them that way in thin coon. hats off to the guys that can get it done consistently!

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 11-21-2009 12:55 AM:

okie Dawg

After reading your post about coon dogs /S&R dogs I am wonder what profession you are in?. Just wondering not many people on thos post has any idea about S&R, cadaver, not to mention patrol dogs.
elvis I enjoyed your answer, I agree if a person can find a dog with those qualities and has the ability to keep the dog focused good things will happen. J M O.
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Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-21-2009 05:17 AM:

I am a barber. The dog training I have allways kept as a hobby. I love messing with dogs and if you do it for a liveing it just turns into a job. I have been into a little of about everything. I use to travel a lot teaching the cadaver thing at seminars around the country. I got burned out of traveling all the time and it took to much time away from the shop.
The patrol dog thing I was just around like the drug dog thing. Most seminars were law enforcement sponcered ans had drug dog, some attack dog, live air scent, tracking,and cadaver. I done live air till the kids got to old to want to be victoms. Then got into cadaver. I would still do some live air if some one around here was serious about training a dog but you can't do it your self.

Posted by Stranger on 11-21-2009 08:26 PM:

Re: Who trained the last few world ch.

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Does anyone know who trained the last few world champions from pup threw there first year or two? Who trained any of the big hunt winners? Wonder if any of them would tell a person how they were as pups. when they were started, how they were started, what kind of drive they had. Maybe set down have coffee and let a person pic there brain. I kow I got tired of that sometimes at search seminars BUT sure wood like to get in the wood with some of these guys or read a little of what they have to say about the dogs as pups.
Oh and did the trainers handle them in the hunts?

This is a little while ago but I raised and trained 1996 PKC World Champion Eileen's Wildtime from a pup and sold her as a four year old finished dog. Along with my partner Wayne, we Granded her out in UKC as a three year old. Time had alot of drive, but even more so impressive was her desire to compete, and she was really good at keeping her head together in competition. As a pup, she started around eight months old running some track, she was put away shortly after due to our winter. In April of the next year she treed her first coon by herself. I exposed her to every type of hunting territory I could. I am fortunate enough to have spots where I hunt that have thick coon as well as very thin coon. I hunted her in thick cedar swamps with the belief that if she could drive a track thru there she should be able to fly thru the hardwoods, which she could. She needed very little correction along the way, and was very accurate for the style of hound she was. She had a great personality and loved attention, but first and foremost, she treed coons for her, I was secondary. In my experience there is such a fine line between a very good hound and a great hound, the differences are very subtle. I've owned some very nice hounds since her and still have some of her blood in my yard, but I have never owned another hound quite like her though.

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Posted by Okie Dawg on 11-21-2009 08:42 PM:

Stranger

Thank You very much Stranger. That is exactly what I was looking for. I appreciate you takeing the time to share with us.

Posted by Stranger on 11-21-2009 09:53 PM:

Re: Stranger

quote:
Originally posted by Okie Dawg
Thank You very much Stranger. That is exactly what I was looking for. I appreciate you takeing the time to share with us.

No problem, and your welcome.

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Posted by chris baker on 11-22-2009 07:40 AM:

If the dogs don't have the drive and desire to do it you are wasting your time. They have to have the heart and willingness to please or they will be just everyday average dogs in my opinion. I have never won any big titles but have raised a dog or three and there are huge differences in my eyes. I would think you would always want to pick a bold out going pup out of a cross that the parents came from a high percentage cross also. Feed them right and hunt them till there pads are raw or you can't go anymore and then do it again and if it is in the dog it will eventually come out. Some it will be faster than others. My buddy and I have littermate female for example, his started earlier and he has hunted it more. Mine just all of a sudden turned it on, split treeing and having the meat. She is now way ahead of her sister and my buddy is chomping at the bit to buy her. Of the coons she has been in on she has backed one dog in her life. The rest she has been split or treed first. She is completly def to other dogs and is getting real good at layups. She is 13 months old.

I'll take a nice dog anyday but a whole bunch of luck to go with that.

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