UKC Forums - Your Opinion on HUNT TESTS

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Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 10-28-2009 02:40 PM:

Your Opinion on HUNT TESTS

Just looking to get some comments on Hunt Tests. If you support them or not please keep it clean and don't go bashing someone's opinion.

Personally I like them and plan to hunt in more of them in the future. We have held three at our local club, two in Febuary and one last weekend, and the one last weekend kicked it off. The first two were not successful at all, with 1 dog entered, but the third went well.

I belivev this is going to be the next tool used in picking a stud dog, but I may be wrong.

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Posted by Adam Reynolds on 10-28-2009 02:51 PM:

I like the idea of them but they have not caught on around here and I have never been to one. I like the fact that they have some of them during the week. And it would look good on a stud dog or a female as well. It could be a denominator in the equation to choose a hound to breed to.

Posted by on 10-28-2009 02:55 PM:

I don't think it will ever be considered a usefull tool by many serious breeders because with the exception of Maniac, I have not talked to one single serious breeder that has any use for them. But then I don't believe UKC has ever intended for the program to be used as a breeders tool.

Posted by Maniac on 10-28-2009 02:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I don't think it will ever be considered a usefull tool by many serious breeders because with the exception of Maniac, I have not talked to one single serious breeder that has any use for them. But then I don't believe UKC has ever intended for the program to be used as a breeders tool.

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Posted by ronald schultz on 10-28-2009 03:02 PM:

used correctly they should be very meaningful!!!

i have seen a good number of dogs over theyears that with other dogs help in a cast can get pretty darn tuff to beat, and get gr.nt. degrees, but for various reasons i have also seen spome of these dogs get to hunt alone and not look like much at all!!! the key is that the hunt test needs to be done right!!!!

Posted by on 10-28-2009 03:09 PM:

Do you care if a dog is rough? Do you care if they will stay when another dogs splits 50 feet away? Do you care if they will stay if another dog trees with them?
These are questions I want answers to before I ever buy, breed or breed to any dog. And the hunt test will never answer any of them. Dogs that can tree a coon are a dime a dozen today. That is just a small part of the equation even if you don't compete.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 10-28-2009 03:10 PM:

hunt test

i believe they can be a useful tool in evaluating a dogs abilities. I also think it is a good way for the non-comp hunter to be involved in the sport, and have a little something to show for his dogs, other than hear-say. we all grow older, and yes there are senior cast at times, but around here, we normally have two seniors, and we need three to split out a cast for them. this is another way to keep our older folks involved. finally, once a dog is granded, there is nothing else left for him/her to hunt for. Sure there are the slam events, but few clubs have them in our area. this is just another way to keep a dog hunting a little longer before putting him out to the stud or whelping pens. i like the idea, but not sure what kind of support we will get here. we'll find out in Jan. 2010, when we host our first.

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Posted by matthew fannin on 10-28-2009 03:12 PM:

matt

Who wants to breed to a dog that can not run and tree a coon by its self.

Hunt test tells the COON DOGS from the me 2 dogs

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Posted by fmoore on 10-28-2009 03:19 PM:

i think you should do the hunt test frist and then if you pass it you can put your dog in a ukc hunt might cut some of the junk out

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Posted by John D on 10-28-2009 03:22 PM:

I think the concept of the hunt tests is more sound than going out and beating other dogs and handlers for money. One dog against a coon measured against a standard is what coonhunting is all about, imo. It takes away some of the BS and the need to be part Philadelphia lawyer to be able to accomplish anything.

Comp. hunts were probably not very popular in the first few years and I don't look for hunt tests to take over the sport any time soon. But if UKC keeps promoting them, and keeps the integrity level high, at some point they will mean alot more.

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Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 10-28-2009 03:22 PM:

Good responses keep them coming.

When we had our first two back in Febuary our local club was so opposed to having them that only two of us showed up to the club, and one dog was entered. I had to pay for the conservation permit out of my pocket. It was 20.00 woohoo. Any way they were as much opposed to it this time, but now that it went well it sure turned some heads, we will be having more in the future. All you have to do is try a few. It costs nothing for the club to have them, so what does it hurt.

Posted by treberta on 10-28-2009 03:28 PM:

Re: matt

quote:
Originally posted by matthew fannin
Who wants to breed to a dog that can not run and tree a coon by its self.

Hunt test tells the COON DOGS from the me 2 dogs

No it tells me that youre dog can strike and tree for 5 minutes and have a coon and that makes it no where NEAR a coon dog. Thousands upon thousands of other dogs can tree a coon, it's nothing special unless you beat the best. I go hunting almost every night and I expect to see a coon everytime I cut my dog. Does it happen NO but it's what i expect so hearing a dog can strike and stay treed for 5 minutes and have a coon is no intrest to me. However i do think it's a nice option to get more people confortable and involved with competition hunting.
People are taking these hunt tests the wrong way as far as what I can see.

I do agree that there are way to many Grand Nites and nite Ch out there that are just me too dogs but getting a HTX title does not make them a coon dog NOR should it be considered when choosing a stud dog. When you breed to a stud dog you should "ALWAYS" hunt with it a couple times to determine weather you want the traits the dog is showing in youre breeding program.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 10-28-2009 03:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Do you care if a dog is rough? Do you care if they will stay when another dogs splits 50 feet away? Do you care if they will stay if another dog trees with them?
These are questions I want answers to before I ever buy, breed or breed to any dog. And the hunt test will never answer any of them. Dogs that can tree a coon are a dime a dozen today. That is just a small part of the equation even if you don't compete.

JiM,

Don't know if I'm considered a "serious breeder" or not, but I have a dog that finished, and another that is one test away...

I see them as "icing on the cake" if you will. The dog that I have that is finished is a GR NT in UKC, a Supreme Grand in AKC, and a PKC Champion. Has been in the top 16 of at least one world hunt, and the final four of the AKC nationals....

And I guess to "further prove" that he would go hunting by himself, and could tree coon...(oh, and to support my local club) I entered him in some hunt tests and got the HTX title.

The other dog that I have hunt test completions on is a GR NT in UKC, a NT CH in AKC and a PKC Champion as well.

Now, just like every other title out there, this proves nothing more than the dog completed the requirements to earn the title. Titles do NOT tell us anything about HOW the dog fullfilled the requirement. It doesn't tell us if the dog treed one coon in an hour, or five! I'll say it again

TITLES ARE ONE OF THE WORST BREEDING SELECTION CRITERIA AVAILABLE TO US!

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 10-28-2009 03:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
JiM,
TITLES ARE ONE OF THE WORST BREEDING SELECTION CRITERIA AVAILABLE TO US!

I agree with Joe on his statement above. I have hunted with many hounds that could tree coon after coon and do it well. On the other hand they were not my style of hound. The best way to figure what if a dog is worthy breeding stock is to hunt with its family members if possible, but at least hunt with its offspring.

Now, with that said what about hunt test. I believe any program that may increase the number of coon hunters in any fashion is a good thing. I also appauled any registery that is trying to increase options for their customers.

I have not yet tried a hunt test, but I can see me trying one in the future.

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Posted by barryg35 on 10-28-2009 04:01 PM:

watch a kid get one with a dog and see how proud that will make him/her.....thats just another way of looking at it.

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Posted by mike shannon on 10-28-2009 04:46 PM:

hunt test

I am for them seperates me too dogs from coondogs also great point by barryg

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Posted by treberta on 10-28-2009 04:52 PM:

Re: hunt test

quote:
Originally posted by mike shannon
I am for them seperates me too dogs from coondogs also great point by barryg

Hey Mike, did you read my reply? No thoughts ?

Posted by Christy on 10-28-2009 05:00 PM:

WE PARTICIPATE IN THE HUNT TESTS ON A REGULAR BASIS. IF THERE WERE MORE AROUND HERE, WE'D PARTICIPATE MORE OFTEN.

THEY ARE FUN, IT'S JUST ABOUT THE DOG AND THE COON.

IT'S THE CLOSEST TO PLEASURE HUNTING YOU CAN GET AND STILL EARN A TITLE/DEGREE ON YOUR DOG.

IT TAKES THE EDGE OFF, THERE I NO PRESSURE.

IT'S JUST THE DOG DOING WHAT IT WAS BRED TO DO.

OH, AND ONE MORE LITTLE THING YA'LL MUST REMEMBER.

IN A HUNT TEST, THERE ARE NO "CIRCLE TREES" YOU EITHER SEE A COON, OR YOUR FAIL. THERE ARE NO "ATTA BOYS" IN A HUNT TEST.

IT IS AS CUT AND DRY AS IT CAN GET. IF YOU SEE A DOG WITH A HUNT TEST PASS OR HTX TITLE, YOU KNOW IT CAN TREE COONS BY ITESLF. SIMPLE AS THAT.

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Posted by Adam Reynolds on 10-28-2009 05:27 PM:

It flat out amazes me about this sport. We complain about me too dogs and handlers winning hunts not dogs. UKC then comes out with this program for people wanting to participate then it gets knocked around as not credible??? I aint knocking anyones opinion but I am thankful we do have options to prove a coondog is a coondog. The concept of a nt hunts is the guage alot of people use to measure hounds. But with professional handlers, plenty of money, cheating or whatever if your dog will stike and tree you can get them titled. Just depends on how much you want to put in it but this test there is no slick handling to deal with anyways. Now I enjoy the hunts as most do but you have to admit without someone who has the experiance in the hunts the best dog doesn't always win. But as stated above you should go by so much more when it comes to breeding than titles. You should take a hunt with the stud AND female you are going to purchase a pup out of is the most important thing anyone could do if possible.

Posted by JeremyBayless on 10-28-2009 05:33 PM:

Fun

I really enjoyed the one I entered and it took some of the preasure off of me with all the RULES in a NITE HUNT and keeping track of the score just seems to be a pain in my back side
I think they are AWESOME

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Posted by Dhyer on 10-28-2009 05:42 PM:

I personally think it's kind of pointless. like many others have said, a dog hunting by itself and treeing a coon is a small part of being what many consider a coon dog. I think for people that don't competition hunt it may be a way for them to be involved, but it really doesn't say much about the dog. I have a couple pups that would pass that easily, and they aren't even close to coon dogs and may never be. I also think it's a way for UKC to make more money. Good business decision on there part apparently.

Posted by rump27 on 10-28-2009 06:05 PM:

Kind of Pointless?

After reviewing the rules I believe the Hunt Test are a bit harder than a nite cast. In the nite hunt you have up to 4 dogs to keep the 8 min open, just one dog in HTX. It isn't hard for a me too dog to follow a good dog to a tree in a nite hunt and get some plus. Would that me too dog stick the tree for 5 min by itself. You cant drop and split strike points on a road coon or drop close to any feeders. You don't have 3 other peoples opinions on how the rules read and that try to hose a good dog when their's shouldn't be in the hunt cause it isn't ready for one. In the HTX you are done after 2 faults. Nite hunts you get to play around until you get -425. Either way the challenges are different for each style of hunt. I would rather know that a dog can tree one by itself than need help. It is really every persons preference but it isn't pointless!

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Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 10-28-2009 06:16 PM:

Rump27
It is 400-

I'm not saying that titles are a deciding factor in breeding, but I believe that they are for most. I know of several Gr Nite Hounds that won't even leave your feet by themselves, much less tree a coon.

And like alot of others have said what about the kids that can't out call an experienced handler, or the elderly that can't keep up in the woods. You have to have three to make a seperate cast.

Then you have the people that have real nice hounds that will not participate in the hunts, because they have been screwed around so much, now I know that is way over rated but they will ener these events.

Personally I would pick a Nite Hunt over a Hunt Test, but I do like them and plan to hunt in more of them.

Posted by on 10-28-2009 06:20 PM:

I better go back and read my own post again because atleast two of you have implied that I believe or use hunt titles to somehow measure the worth of a dog and I am purty sure I never mentioned hunt titles in either of my posts above.

Posted by Okie Dawg on 10-28-2009 06:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Atherton
I agree with Joe on his statement above. I have hunted with many hounds that could tree coon after coon and do it well. On the other hand they were not my style of hound. The best way to figure what if a dog is worthy breeding stock is to hunt with its family members if possible, but at least hunt with its offspring.

Now, with that said what about hunt test. I believe any program that may increase the number of coon hunters in any fashion is a good thing. I also appauled any registery that is trying to increase options for their customers.

I have not yet tried a hunt test, but I can see me trying one in the future.

Amen guys, I agree.
Treberta said it don't mean nothing unless you beat the best. Well I don't think they have any test to tell if your dog is the best or not.
I think these test will get pleasure hunters to comeing back to the clubs when they find out about them. Don't have to put up with the win win minded people. I think it is great to put your young dogs in that are to young to be put in the woods with trash treeing dogs or alligators yet.
I think if they made it a requirement to be able to enter a nite hunt there wouldn't be many enteries though. A lot of the dogs in the hunts will not tree there own coon.
I could see this getting bigger than the nite hunts. It will never replace them but for a lot of people it will be more FUN and that is what brings the biggest crouds.

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