UKC Forums - Hunt question-On tree

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Posted by Todd Miller on 10-10-2009 02:14 PM:

Hunt question-On tree

Okay dog A, B & C stuck in, Dog A my dog trees up fence row for a 1st tree. Dogs B and C come treed split on blow downs leading into a nice oak tree. We have to walk past dogs B & C to get my dog they ask if its okay to handle their dogs first, I said yes no problem. I walked in with them, and one dog leaves, no problem Iam thinking good in my mind, but this is my question the other dog was moving on the ground trailing up the blow down, He was not stationed treeing when we got to tree. We circled the tree could not find coon. Should that dog have been minus?

Posted by Bill(Chew) on 10-10-2009 02:54 PM:

Was the dog trailing or treeing? Had the dog reached as far as it could go? Rember that some dogs will climb and some dogs will not get their feet off of the ground. You should have stood back and watched the dog to determine if it was treeing or not. Many dogs are not stationary when treeing on a blow down. It is going to be a judgement call.

A judgement call should go like this, IMHO. If it is NOT your dog, how would you make the call if it WAS your dog. If it IS your dog, how would you call it if it was NOT your dog.

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Posted by Rip on 10-10-2009 03:05 PM:

If I understand it right, and I may not so bear with me, the dog would be scored circle just like the one that was treed that was standing still.

I think you are saying they were in fact treed on a blowdown, and his extent of "moving" was really going around/up/down the blowdown that he was treed on anyway. SO, he was treed the whole time, never actually left the tree because the entire blowdown was the tree. He was showing tree even if he was moving because going around a blow down trying to get in to the coon is no different than a dog going around to the other side of the tree. It's still the same object/place of refuge the dog was treed on.

Is that what happened?

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Posted by Todd Miller on 10-10-2009 03:06 PM:

I see you point Bill and thats what I was thinking. I did stand back and watch, the dog was smelling up the tree and back down the blow down. Looked like he was trailing like he should of been on the ground, if that make since, plus he wasn't treeing a nice chop like he had on the other tree. I guess if it was my dog it would have to take minus. In fact the handler didn't want to tree him very bad, he said he waited for another dog to tree.

Rip, hope this helps it is a tough call.

Posted by cbcoonskinner on 10-10-2009 03:08 PM:

I would say minus dog on tree points ,he had been treed, then left the tree.if he was trailing he should be left out on trail unless he was re treed he shouldn't have been handled, unless he came to the tree after judge arrived if thats the case

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Posted by Todd Miller on 10-10-2009 03:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cbcoonskinner
I would say minus dog on tree points ,he had been treed, then left the tree.if he was trailing he should be left out on trail unless he was re treed he shouldn't have been handled, unless he came to the tree after judge arrived if thats the case

Coonskinner no he stayed on the blow down just trailing up and down blow down, like he was the ground.

Posted by Rip on 10-10-2009 03:17 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Miller
I see you point Bill and thats what I was thinking. I did stand back and watch, the dog was smelling up the tree and back down the blow down. Looked like he was trailing like he should of been on the ground, if that make since, plus he wasn't treeing a nice chop like he had on the other tree. I guess if it was my dog it would have to take minus. In fact the handler didn't want to tree him very bad, he said he waited for another dog to tree.

Rip, hope this helps it is a tough call.

If it's the same tree it's the same tree and the dog shouldn't be minused. There is nothing in the rules about the dog having to "stand still" to tree, or having to "have the same chop" etc. If it was all one tree the dog was within the rules to move around the entire thing as long as he didn't leave there and was in fact showing treed.

As for him not treeing right, many of us break our dogs from treeing in the ground, so they won't tree right on a dozer pile either cause it's not up a tree (and if they get in there good enough that they see it's a hole in the ground they will leave, as they should).

If it was showing tree and never left that entire pile that was considered the same tree then it is circled.

Now if it DID leave that conglomeration that was the place of refuge he would be minused because even at a hole/place of refuge dogs declared treed must stay at the hole/place of refuge just like it was a tree. They can't be saved by the "one dog showing the end of the track". That is reserved for strike points only.

A good handler would NOT have treed his dog at that time because he would have known his dog good enough to know it was not treed on a tree but was barking in a tile/hole/brush etc and he would have only need to be in the area to get his strike scored as opposed to having to show treed.

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Posted by Rip on 10-10-2009 03:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Todd Miller
Coonskinner no he stayed on the blow down just trailing up and down blow down, like he was the ground.

If that's the case there is absolutely no way within the rules that you can minus that dog. He was showing treed just as much as the one that was sitting still. It would have actually been a rules violation to have minused that dog.

It was a blowdown. A place of refuge. He can be all over it as much as he wants to as long as he don't leave it. The dogs don't have to be "still" to be showing treed. They just have to be showing you the same object and not leaving it, declaring the coon to be in there. No different than them going around the base of the tree.

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Posted by cbcoonskinner on 10-10-2009 03:22 PM:

Circle all the way then..

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Al Brobst
po box 71
Wheeling,Mo 64688
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Posted by Todd Miller on 10-10-2009 03:24 PM:

Good thoughts Rip, By that then I would say we scored it right with the circle points. Little deceiving when he was moving up and down the blow down. I agree it would be the same as going around the tree. Thanks everybody all good thoughts.

Posted by roughcreek on 10-10-2009 09:03 PM:

if the blow down is concidered part of the tree circle.

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