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Thanks for responses

However I keep hearing that dogs have to score line to get strike points but I can't see where it says that you have to score a line to get strike. And I guess I was'nt clear with the second question about catching a rabbit and recieving only strike and check points, what would you do with the previous line points that was scored on rabbit. I have an opinpion like eveyone else but the rules says something different.The point is to be honest I want to run my dogs under the rules not an interpertation of them I believe this is why rules were written to make a fair playing field for all.

They can't answer the question because it isn't in the rule book. It is no where in there.
If So PLEASE QUOTE the PAGE Number Have looked at the rulebooks back to 2000.......

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From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

look under points will be plus. there are 6 ways a,b,c,d,e,and f

quote:

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I keep hearing that dogs have to score line to get strike points but I can't see where it says that you have to score a line to get strike.

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From Field to Show and Show to Field the way it should be

Rule (3) POINTS WILL BE PLUS:

There are four ways that a dog can get its strike points plused.

1: When the non- hunting judge, or majority of the cast if hunting judge is used, are present as judge scores dogs on speed and drive at point rabbit was seen by a judge or cast member (after completion of circle).

2: Dogs are struck in and majority of the cast has seen the rabbit when time runs out in the cast.

3: Dogs are struck in and they catch the rabbit.

4: If dogs are struck in and the majority of the cast see the rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.
(Cast must make an attempt to locate hole)

Jed , I know how the rules state, but on your heading is says points will be plus, it doesn't say strikes will be plus for the first explaination.

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JEREMY GEIGER

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You are right it does not say strike will be plused. However it does list all the situations in which the points can be plused.

(IF) rule 3a says that a dog must score a line to get its strike points according to some,then can we assume that rule 3e also say that all dogs must show the the hole to get there strike points.Me personally,I think that we can do better with the rules at making things clear and not leaving it up to the judges interpertation.With this being said when the rules are clear you know that your dog got what it deserved, good or bad.This is the reason why I lean toward the ukc format so that i dont have my dogs judged by someone basically just giving me there opinion.

Re: Rule (3) POINTS WILL BE PLUS:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jed Nichols
There are four ways that a dog can get its strike points plused.

1: When the non- hunting judge, or majority of the cast if hunting judge is used, are present as judge scores dogs on speed and drive at point rabbit was seen by a judge or cast member (after completion of circle).

2: Dogs are struck in and majority of the cast has seen the rabbit when time runs out in the cast.

3: Dogs are struck in and they catch the rabbit.

4: If dogs are struck in and the majority of the cast see the rabbit and it goes to a hole or place of refuge.
(Cast must make an attempt to locate hole)

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This is from the main Beagle Page, By T. Morgan

Beagle Questions and Answers

Question: On a four-dog cast, all dogs are struck in. The rabbit is completely circled and seen by a cast member. The judge is present as Dogs A, B and C score on the line. Dog D misses the line. On the second circle, a line is marked and the cast agrees to pick the dogs up after they score it. Again, Dogs A, B and C score. Dog D misses it again. How do you score dog D’s strike points?

Answer: The answer to this question is to minus Dog D his strike points. Here is why.

As I have discussed in this column many times before, there are only four ways you can plus your strike points. They are to: 1) score speed and drive; 2) catch a rabbit; 3) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and it goes to a place of refuge; and 4) if the majority of the cast sees a rabbit and the time runs out in the hunt. The fact that the other three dogs scored Speed and Drive is not enough to plus Dog D’s strike points. Only those dogs scoring Speed and Drive receive plus strike points. So now we have ruled out plus points.

It is pretty obvious that we cannot score Dog D’s strike points as circle points. Below is rule 5, “points will be circled.”


POINTS WILL BE CIRCLED:

Circle points will count neither for, nor against, dog except when ties are to be broken.

In case of running into a hole or place of refuge, a rabbit that has not been seen by the majority of cast or the non-hunting Judge (cast must make an attempt to locate hole, majority of cast or non-hunting Judges decision).

If dog(s) are trailing when hunting time is finished.

If Judge has to call time out because of nearness to livestock, building, highway, etc.

As you can see, none of the criteria for circle points was met. Therefore, we have one more choice, minus. The big discussion that many people have on this subject is whether to minus the dog his strike points or 50 points. As I stated above, the right call is to minus the dog his strike points.

The following comes from rule 15(b):

“At time rabbit is seen, Judge or majority of cast if hunting Judge is used, must decide whether to allow dog(s) to continue on trail or pick up dog(s) in order to find new ground or another rabbit. Speed and drive points are awarded in order that dogs pass, splitting points when positions cannot be determined. After first dog has been scored on Speed and Drive, there is a one-minute time limit to score remaining dogs on that line. Dog(s) must be open on the majority of chase in order to be scored. If allowed to continue on trail, score initial strike points and each time rabbit is circled and seen, score speed and drive only. Speed and drive may be scored three (3) times only on the same rabbit. If loss occurs before completion of any additional circle, each dog declared struck to be scored 50 minus points in the losses/recoveries column. However, in case of split tracks, see rule 3(d). Otherwise, no dog(s) to be called off a trail without those points being minused.”

Okay, it was decided before the Speed and Drive was scored. This essentially makes it just like the cast is scoring their third Speed and Drive. This was Dog D’s last chance to lock in his strike points. He did not, so his points are minus.

You will also see where this rule states, “If loss occurs before completion of any additional circle, each dog declared struck to be scored 50 minus points in the losses/recoveries column.” No loss occurred, as it was predetermined that the dogs were going to get picked up after the line was scored so this rule would not apply. Only one of the four dogs is going to receive minus in this situation and they have not “locked in” their strike points. Therefore they are to get their strike points minused.

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I have seen this many times the post that Todd made his interpretation of the rule
But I think it is way wrong to minus a dog his strike points for doing nothing wrong especially if he was the dog to jump the rabbit just because he didn't come through right where the rabbit came through and other dogs did

Its funny to me that only one person has to see a rabbit to call a line and we plus all the dogs that came through on that line
But the dog that started the track will get minused his strike just doesn't seem right I FEEL THIS ISSUE NEEDS CHANGED TO BE MORE CLEAR IN THE RULE BOOK

Another thing that bothers me is a dog doesn't have to even show a hole and he doesn't get his strike points minus, here were I live and almost everywhere that is full of brush is loaded with holes so its not hard to find one for a man to show

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MTNEER KENNELS
BOB POST
SALEM, WV
mtneercurs@aol.com

grey area

how can you not award a dog for jumping a rabbit, we have to see it to score it, then how can we award checks on game not seen, doubble standard, if a dog misses line that should be the penalty, we lost a great opportunity to make ukc better, but all but a few rule proposals we voted down, lets go forward with improvements.

jerry kelly