UKC Forums - State Race Points

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-- State Race Points (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=302193)

Posted by Don Wells on 09-25-2009 10:29 AM:

State Race Points

When you purchase a dog do the state race points go with the dog or do you start over?

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Posted by smoking gunz on 09-25-2009 01:34 PM:

they start over

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Posted by Bub M on 09-25-2009 07:33 PM:

No they don't start over,they stay with the dog in the state it was org. in until you match them in your state.If the dog has 20 in WV,you buy the dog & reg. it in OH when you get 20 more it will have a total of 40 in OH.

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Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 09-26-2009 01:20 PM:

Our state race is being hijacked by a Grand Hunting Beagle that has no competition and has never been judged by anyone but it's owner. I would have to see the club member that accompanies the judge to believe that is taking place. The UKC staff knows what has been done to eliminate the competition.

My dog has never won a cast where I was the judge and always had stiff competition.

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Posted by MTNEERBP on 09-26-2009 03:16 PM:

Dave why dont you take one of your Grands and go to the hunts and compete against him then he would have compitition
Instead of bashing him on here if other Grands woud show up he would have compitition ,how would that man elimanate compitition unless his dog beat them all the time and they didnt want to waste there money
I dont know the man or his dog but why post negitive posts all the time

My dog has won casts were I was the judge and has lost more casts were I was the judge with stiff compitition and some potlickers

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Posted by Owen D on 09-26-2009 04:59 PM:

You dont get state race points unless you have competition, so he has to be running against someone to be reciving pts. Bob hows that pup doin outa Brut ?

Owen

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Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 09-26-2009 06:49 PM:

There IS a reason, you can be sure of that. There are some clubs that attempt to rig everything, from the choice of judges to the draw out (not random) . They do not have club elections like their by-laws require so the same guy and his son can be the judges every time. There are some dogs that never would win unless their owner is the judge.

I would like to be more positive but if no one says anything, nothing will ever get changed. It is not even close to being fair now. I have other competition events I can spend my money on that are not rigged.

Posted by xdawgbeagles on 09-26-2009 09:16 PM:

Grand Hunting Beagle that has no competition???

Are you saying no other dogs are running or nothing that can beat him???

If there is only one grand that grand doesn't get points...

Does not...

Jack

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Posted by MTNEERBP on 09-26-2009 11:19 PM:

Owen
Ol Judd is doing a good job for me he is going to be a keeper give me a call sometime as I havent been to a hunt in awhile and we were supoosed to meet up

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Posted by justsandm on 09-27-2009 12:35 AM:

Dearest Dave

Dave,
Sounds like "GRHBCH Runyon's Fox Creek Yeller" is more dog than you can handle! Although, he is not running away with the lead. He is actually tied and another hound is only 6 points behind.

Is everyone on that list from Illinois cheating? I ask because I don't see any of your hounds on it. You must be the only one following the rules.

Yeah, that's why.

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 09-27-2009 01:40 PM:

Sorry, but my dog is and has been leading the Illinois State race all year long Her name is Midnight and she can beat Yeller anytime. I also own Yeller's littermate, Grand Champion Hunting Beagle Champion Lakeland's Cricket II and owned Yeller's mother Champion Lakeland's Cricket. So it isn't jealousy. Midnite has won 7 out of 8 casts and may have won the other one but there was 2 Champion casts and I knew it didn't matter who won our cast, the other cast was going to come in with a higher score. Not because of the dog power, I knew who was on the other cast. It was rigged.

There is a clique that is running 2 Illinois clubs and they cheat. Plain and simple. They put wins on their dogs by cheating. They don't have the dog power to compete fair and square.

I compete in lots of events in lots of different formats in several different registries. I have several Champion coonhounds and Champion Mt Curs as well as beagles. These cheats are not the only ones out there. But, there are some very honest clubs and events also, and I intend to spend my time and money with them.

Like I said before, these clubs do not hold elections like the by-laws require. . So, the same cheats manipulate everything. They are manipulating the State race. I really don't care who wins the State Race, I am only after the Championship points and would not be going to Ohio.

Posted by Jeremy Mapes on 09-27-2009 05:52 PM:

Debating this is sensless. You guys know that there are just some people who never lose (always get cheated).

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Posted by justsandm on 09-28-2009 12:48 AM:

Any time Dave doesn't win, he was cheated.

My dog, "Strike Stiff" should have won two of his recent hunts. I, the handler, messed that up. Not who I hunted against, not the judge, not the other dogs, not the MOH... just me. My hound did his part and I didn't do mine.

That's the way it goes! I just got beat.

Say it with me Dave,

"Sometimes we don't win. Sometimes we don't win. Sometimes we don't win. Sometimes we get beat."

Now, doesn't that feel better?

LOL.

Posted by VICKY B on 09-28-2009 02:04 AM:

hunt

quote:
Originally posted by Lakeland Kennel
Sorry, but my dog is and has been leading the Illinois State race all year long Her name is Midnight and she can beat Yeller anytime. I am only after the Championship points and would not be going to Ohio.

Dave,why dont you finish Midnite to GRHBCH and compete in the grand cast, then you can see whats going on and not listen to hear say.
Its hard to believe entire clubs are conspiring to cheat you.
Best of luck with your dog.

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Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 09-28-2009 12:26 PM:

Vicky B, some of the local hunters do not want to compete with Midnight.

Justsansm, Midnight is winning. What I am saying is not because my dog is getting beat. She is so dominate, she wins in spite of the cheating. And, not all clubs are doing the cheating.

I am saying what I am saying to stop the cheating. When a dog gets a 1st place win by running a likely squirrel track 100 yards, then back tracking to the place where the track was started next to where we were standing with no obvious hole, that is cheating. The dog's owner does the drawouts and stacks the cast with his buddies who allow the cheating. A random draw may have stopped some of the cheating.

Folks, I sometimes compete on casts with my squirrel dogs with thousands of dollars at stake. These casts are run by the rules and the kennel club that puts these hunts on make an effort to eliminate the cheating. I know the difference between honest casts and cheating. I have a squirrel dog that wins a high percentage of it's cast but the guys don't cheat trying to beat her.

Much of what I am saying is directed at UKC's staff. They have a little more insight into what is taking place. They can stop it if they want to. Maybe they will stop me from posting. At least I will know I made an honest effort to stop the cheating.

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 09-28-2009 04:43 PM:

I am NOT saying any club is conspiring against me. One club has some honest members and had quite a few more in the past but many have quit coming for some reason. Probably, the same reason I am going to quit. I will never set foot at the other club. I will say about one club in particullar, no meetings are held, and no elections have been held in years. The club officers pick the judges. You can't replace the officer and perhaps, elect some more honest officers who will use others to judge if there is no fair election held. The current officers appoint themselves as judges even though one has a medical condition that prevents him from hearing properly. Anyone that has ever been on a cast with him could easily notice his hearing impediment. I am NOT against disabled people, I am a disabled veteran. But, a lot of judgement calls are made by a judge being able to hear the dogs clearly. This fellow clearly can't hear the dogs properly. It is unfair for him to be a judge.

You fellows seem to think I should compete with the cheats. I am sorry, but I am very choosy who I will associate with. I never judge anyone by their financial situation but I always judge people by their honesty. Lies have been told already and I am NOT going to subjucate myself to where a cheat and a couple of his buddies can tell lies against me. I can hunt else where where honest folks compete. I have competed for well over 30 years in a lot of events held by a lot of different clubs under several different registries. I know the correct way things should be done. Suggesting I should settle for less is insulting. I am not going to lower my standards. Nuff said.

Posted by xdawgbeagles on 09-28-2009 05:17 PM:

Running a squirrel and holing it wouldn't give them plus points which are needed to earn state race
points. Take a grand, demand a fair draw, and hold them to the rules.
Jack

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Posted by justsandm on 09-28-2009 09:35 PM:

I'm with Jack. Why wouldn't you MAKE them draw the casts fairly. Surely not EVERYBODY other than you at the hunt is a cheater from that club. Also, the judge is just a score keeper. Open your mouth and say something if it's not right. You like to use your video camera, use it to record the improper "stacking" of the casts and the bad calls in the field.

In the current American Beagler, Yeller is tied with Midnight in the standings.

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 09-29-2009 12:54 PM:

You guys are just hearing part of the story. The UKC staff knows more of the story.

As for the clubs, one just has a few members that are abusing the rules. The other has only 1 guy that can keep a straight scorecard, (in my opinion). As I said before, I go to a lot of hunts in a lot of diferent formats. You run into some of the same stuff in other formats and other registries. I am just hoping the beagle stuff gets cleaned up. I enjoy competing with my beagles but, I can enjoy my beagles with out competing with them and, there are plenty of oportunities to spend my competition dog money else where. I am speaking from a position of winning, so my complaints are not sour grapes. I am just tired of the BS. It is supposed to be about who has the best beagle any given day, not who can manipulate the rules.

I appreciate some of you folk's advise but when you use some of it, it can lead to other complications.

As for the score that day, the dog would have came in with minus points if it had been judged fairly.

I have said about all I am going to say on this topic.

As for my camcorder, I have plenty of evidence recorded. Years ago, I told Todd Kellam I was just taping the dog action and would not use anything I recorded as evidence. I will honor my word. But, I have sent UKC a letter that from now on, anything I record will be used as evidence.

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