UKC Forums - Score it

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Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 09-24-2009 02:39 PM:

Score it

I know how it works, I just like to see these posts on here. I've learned from some of them, I think they are a good form of info.

Three Dog cast - Open Registered

Cut the dogs, minute is up.
Dog A 1st Strike
Dog B 3rd Strike
Dog C 2nd Strike

Dogs Trail around a big Lake. 8 min is ran a couple of times, but broke both times.

Dog A 2nd Tree
Dog B 3rd Tree
Dog C 1st Tree

5 was started when dog C treed, and cast started to the hounds. It was a good ways around the Lake. Other dogs treed, and cast proceeded to tree, All dogs Treed. It took about 9 min to get to them.

Upon arrival Dog C was split 30 feet from dogs A and B. they were directly in line with each other from the direction they were called, no split was appearant until we got there. Both trees had coon, 1 had two and the other had 3. The trees did not touch in anyway.

What do you think.

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Posted by John D on 09-24-2009 02:46 PM:

Re: Score it

quote:
Originally posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS

Cut the dogs, minute is up.
Dog A 1st Strike
Dog B 3rd Strike
Dog C 1st Strike

First, Dog A and C can't both carry 1st strike as you show.

Aside from that, you move Dog A up to 125 and Dog B up to 75 on tree and plus them all up.

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Posted by midmohunter on 09-24-2009 05:33 PM:

Re: Re: Score it

quote:
First, Dog A and C can't both carry 1st strike as you show.

Aside from that, you move Dog A up to 125 and Dog B up to 75 on tree and plus them all up.

Dogs A and C could have split 1st strike points, but that would mean dog B has 2nd strike. Other then that it's a split tree so dogs A and B get moved up.

Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 09-24-2009 06:06 PM:

Sorry about that. I typed it in wrong, but I fixed it.

Posted by cooney on 09-24-2009 06:13 PM:

A 225+
B 125+
C 200+

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Posted by charterpines on 09-24-2009 06:14 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Score it

quote:
Originally posted by midmohunter
Dogs A and C could have split 1st strike points, but that would mean dog B has 2nd strike. Other then that it's a split tree so dogs A and B get moved up.

if A and C split strike points It would be First and second strike points; B would get 3rd strike

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Posted by midmohunter on 09-24-2009 06:27 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Score it

quote:
Originally posted by charterpines
if A and C split strike points It would be First and second strike points; B would get 3rd strike

If A and C were to split 1st strike then 2nd strike position would still be open. Therefore dog B would still take 2nd strike.

Posted by edf61 on 09-24-2009 06:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by cooney
A 225+
B 125+
C 200+

No strike was split!!!!

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Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 09-24-2009 06:56 PM:

Sorry about the confusion on the strike, I typed wrong.

EDF61

You got it

Midmocoonhunter

You are on the right track with the point split though. If 2 dogs split a position, such as first, then 2nd is next avaiable.

I like these Score it threads. Simple ones, hard calls, and even the stupid ones. They are all a good source of information.

Posted by Jason Payne on 09-24-2009 07:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS
If 2 dogs split a position, such as first, then 2nd is next avaiable.

Check that again on the bottom right of the card. If two dogs split on strike, they have to split the two available positions that are open. For example, two dogs open and are called at the same time while first strike is open. Those two dogs split first and second strike points (check the bottom right of the card) Split on first and second strike would be 100 + 75 = 175, then divide 175 by two (two dogs split the positions) and the split is 87-1/2 (thus the split on the bottom of the card on the right, UKC made it easy by doing the math for us).

So, if 2 dogs split a position, the two available positions are added together and the points divided between them... In the case quoted above, next available would be third, b/c 2nd is already being held...

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Posted by Qball on 09-24-2009 07:48 PM:

Not sure what you are splitting unless Dog A & B called tree together.
Dog A - 100 strike & position called on tree but moves up
Dog B - 50 strike & position called on tree but moves up
Dog C - 75 strike & 125 on tree
Dog A & B move up position on tree as it is a split tree

Posted by midmohunter on 09-24-2009 08:09 PM:

EDF61 when Josh first posted this dogs A and C were both holding first strike. He has since corrected the post.

Jason I believe the reason you add the two positions together before you split them is so that you will still have more points than the person that gets second strike. Otherwise if you were to just split 1st strike dogs A and C would have 50pts and dog B would strike in for 75.

When you split strike points you are basically calling it a tie. When you have a tie you only tie for one position. Not two. Therfore second strike is still open.

Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 09-24-2009 08:32 PM:

Jason - Midmohunter

I'm not sure never thought about it that way. I don't believe that I have ever done any point splitting in a real hunt before.

What Jason says makes sence now that I think about it.

Lets see if Todd Kellem can enlighten us.

TODD Can you help us out. After all people will argue this until someone from UKC straightens it out.

Posted by john Duemmer on 09-24-2009 08:37 PM:

No need to argue, just look at a score card lower right corner they do the math for you. A. and B strike at the same time they are tied for first and second. First 100 second 75. total 175 divide by two= 87.5. next available is third strike for 50.

Posted by John D on 09-24-2009 09:01 PM:

What Jason Payne and John Duemmer said.

2 dogs don't just split one position, they split two....

Posted by charterpines on 09-24-2009 10:06 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Score it

[QUOTE]Originally posted by midmohunter
If A and C were to split 1st strike then 2nd strike position would still be open. Therefore dog B would still take 2nd strike. [/QUOTE NOt refering to the post if you split strike points you split that strike points and the next strike points read the rules and i am not trying to offend you buddy but i believe that is the way it is!

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Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 09-24-2009 10:43 PM:

You can't fill two positions with three dogs. No matter if it is strike or tree. The split simply means that two dogs were called at the same time and they must cover next two available positions. You can't put two dogs down for one spot. Just remember midmohunter you are using lets say first and second strike. After you add those two together and divide by two you get 87 1/5. You have already used first and second strike so the next available is third. If three dogs split the first three positions then the last dog to strike wouldn't get 75, he gets 25 because the first three positions were already used. Jason you are right.

Scenerio. A and B strike together. The split is 87 1/2. Then dog C strikes in for 50. Dogs B and C tree at the same time. The split is 100. Dog A trees in for 50. If all three dogs strike at the same time then they would each get 75. If they all three tree at the same time they would each get 83 1/3. But once you use a positions points, in a split or not, that position is considered used.

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Posted by midmohunter on 09-25-2009 03:32 AM:

Dang boys. It's a good thing we aren't out on a hunt I think I would have done been lynched.

I wasn't trying to make anybody mad. I was just explaining it how it was explained to me. I personally have never had to deal with a split. I just discussed it with other folks. I appologize if I'm wrong.

I would like to know which rule you are referring to though if you can tell me. I'm either skipping over it or just not seeing it. I know where the math is at the bottom of the card, but I see no rule that says thats how you score it.

Again I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ I just what to know what rule to refer to in case I'm ever in a situation where I need to use it. Like Josh said sometimes we can learn from even the simple scenarioes put on here.

Posted by tree_dogs on 09-25-2009 03:40 AM:

score

Sounds to me like we ought to scratch the whole cast and start over . LOL LOL !!!

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Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 09-25-2009 04:45 AM:

Sorry I didn't mean to sound like I was jumping on you. There is not a rule that clearly states this. But it is like this, if you have a four dog cast you have four strike and tree positions. You can't only give out three if all four dogs are struck in. All four positions have to be filled. The dogs that split will take up the next two available spots, but since they were tied they must split those points evenly between them. I guess the math part is the rule because it states what positions are being split and that means those spots are taken. I am a MOH and that is the best way I know to tell you. Whoever you talked to obviously didn't know what they were talking about and now you know the truth. It is always better to ask than not know or not know the right answer.

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Posted by edf61 on 09-25-2009 04:58 AM:

If anyone goes to the woods with Josh, Make Sure you break the eraser off his pencil!!!!! LOL

Posted by ST_CRK_KENNELS on 09-25-2009 02:10 PM:

Eddie I pack an ink pen. LOL

Maybe we'll draw out Saturday at the sectional. I'll see you there anyway.

Posted by midmohunter on 09-25-2009 02:30 PM:

Brian I didn't think you were jumping on me. I appreciate your information. It seems to be that everyone else shares your opinion. So I will chalk it up to me being wrong. I do wish there was a little clearer rule that explained this situation though as I can see how it was interpreted the way it was explained to me also. The way you are explaning it makes sence too though.

Oh well majority rules. Somebody get the tar and feathers. I'm ready. LOL

Thanks again for the clarification
Bob

Posted by nccoonhunter197 on 09-25-2009 03:14 PM:

This being your first offense we will let you off with a warning. Man if I were smacked everytime I am wrong I would be one big bruise. Bob I don't know how old you are but you probably know that you live and learn. The way things change, in the comp hunting world anyway, you learn something new daily.

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Posted by stevwallace on 09-25-2009 03:32 PM:

new to all this: how was it actully scored when the smoked cleared

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