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-- is their a difference between big game breeding and cooners? ABSOLUTELY NOT! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=287507)

is their a difference between big game breeding and cooners? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

.at least if the breeders are doing their part there shouldn't be!! WHAT REASON WOULD THERE BE FOR BREEDING THEM DIFFERENTLY?!?!?!??!?!?!

everybody is entitled to their own opinion. same line used on bear and coon both yes.same line also a comp.dog odds are very slim.

yep, i know , BUT!

what i was getting at is that really right??........wouldn't you rather get beat in comp. hunt by a dog that shows you all or at least most of the traits that you would want in a bear dog?(i guess i am on that train of thought that is posted on here quite often , about how breeders are breeding dogs for the "RULES" rather than what would make the best overall hunting dog.)

i was posting my response to bobbyg

i felt he was asking about biggame hunting dogs and COONHUNTING DOGS......more comments on this would be interesting !

Ronald I think we're on the same page

In my opinion

Witch don't realy mean crap,A couple reason's you would breed a differant dog for coon than bear would be.
1.You wouldn't breed a coon dog that would stay with a mean bear on the ground for 12 hours because it would never come into play on a coon hunt.I've had dogs that would only stay 5 or 6 hours,and I would never breed those dogsFor bear but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't make a great coon dog.you would never even know that about your good coon dog.
2.I don't think that a gritty dog is that important to coon hunters.It would be one of the top reason's to breed a bear dog but it wouldn't be one of the top reason's to breed a coon dog.JMO

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Its a **** poor woman who cant support a man and a pack of hounds.

http://www.sprucemountainhunting.com

Re: yep, i know , BUT!

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Originally posted by ronald schultz
what i was getting at is that really right??........wouldn't you rather get beat in comp. hunt by a dog that shows you all or at least most of the traits that you would want in a bear dog?(i guess i am on that train of thought that is posted on here quite often , about how breeders are breeding dogs for the "RULES" rather than what would make the best overall hunting dog.)

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will try

i will post my own opioin but jug head smith will probably cut me down! This dosen't involve bear but my coonhounds switched from nothing but coons back east to lion bobcat& coons with no trouble at all will stayed treed till you get there and dry ground them also thanks for reading TIM

This is my thoughts on the subject. If you want to have a better than average chance to get a standout dog, I'd suggest that you breed and select for the traits that are most needed for success on whatever game you choose to chase. It's pretty rare to get an absolute standout dog on every type of critter you choose to put him on.

Bear dogs generally need a lot of stick, a good amount of speed, good winding/rigging capabilities, and sometimes a wicked good nose to grind out a tough track. They don't have to be great locators or tree dogs.

Coon dogs usually need to be good locate dogs, good tree dogs, medium speed and nose. They don't have to be ultra tough or super cold, although a good nose is an asset on some of those old winter layup tracks.

Cat dogs need a wicked good nose, innate ability to figure out magnum confusing trails, and be a superb locate dog that stays at the tree. A bit of speed to push a jumped doesn't hurt either. They don't need to be tough on game, but do need to have a toughness to hunt day after day in bad conditions.

If you were looking to find a standout hockey player would you look in Canada or California? How about if you wanted to scout a standout baseball player? It's the same thing with dogs and you up your odds (although they are still low) to start with dogs that have already been evaluated on the desired critter.

like what i'm reading

thanks guys , anymore? would be welcome!

I have hunted different breeds and strains within breeds not all of them have what it takes to be a bear dog.Some stocks of dogs look real gritty on a coon but don't have enough backbone to make a bear dog.They might look good on a 100lb bear that runs and trees,but when you have to make one climb or hold it tight then you will know.

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Karl & Nik Seilenbinder
Coney River Kennels

lol

i recken some are just bred to slick tree some arent

I think you could take the hundred best coon dogs in the world and would be hard pressed to get a handful of real bear dogs. Heck, bear dogs don't often reproduce real bear dogs. If they did they would be a dime a dozen.

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Originally posted by Grub
Heck, bear dogs don't often reproduce real bear dogs. If they did they would be a dime a dozen.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

I my opinion, there sure can be. It entirely depends on the breeder. What I like to see if someone who coon hunts and bear hunts, and isn't afraid to cull a dog if they dont make it as a coon dog or bear dog rather than breed it. Same goes for show dogs and coon dogs, there can be a huge difference. How many dogs can win on the bench, but cant tree a coon by themselves, and get bred anyway? Same for bear dogs. A dog might look great in a pack of bear dogs, be a great rig dog or start dog, but trees by site. The dog may not be able to tree a coon by itself...to me this dog is a cull and should be put down or at least never bred. Likewise, a dog that tears a coon apart but bays a bear 30 feet back isn't really a bear dog and should be culled as well. See what I mean, it all depends on what the breeder is willing to do. By the way, I dont claim to be a bear hunter...but I know what I like to see in dogs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by mjflores
.... A dog might look great in a pack of bear dogs, be a great rig dog or start dog, but trees by site. The dog may not be able to tree a coon by itself...to me this dog is a cull and should be put down or at least never bred. Likewise, a dog that tears a coon apart but bays a bear 30 feet back isn't really a bear dog and should be culled as well. See what I mean, it all depends on what the breeder is willing to do. By the way, I dont claim to be a bear hunter...but I know what I like to see in dogs.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

I have to drive 300 miles north to hunt bear. I've got to have dogs that can do it both. We bear hunt 2 weeks of the year , but coonhunt the rest. Clutch , Peg , and Ben are 3 of the dogs I've owned. The other dogs are coondogs that belong to other members of the group. I remember years ago , when we started doing this , people laughed at us for wanting to take our " coondogs " bear hunting ! LOL

Dads Bear - This is one of several that Clutch ( all night , every night coondog ) treed by himself. The plott was a young dog turned out at the start , but never made the tree. ( and never amounted to nothing )

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/...ob42/Clutch.jpg

The video is of Peg ( another tough coondog ) being taken down. She was a daughter of Yadkin River Champ. Her grandsire on her mothers side was Pattisons Mahogany Tom. He won The Grand American , not sure of the year though. ( coondog bred )
All the other dogs are used on coon also.

http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/...urrent=bear.flv

Ben , the dog I run now has Sackett Jr 3 times in his 3 generation papers.
He's not as good as some of the rest I've had , but he'd suit most people.

http://s253.photobucket.com/albums/...nandjordan2.jpg

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

The first year we tryed it , everyone told us we had to have a " start " dog. We didn't even know what that was. LOL
Later on , after we learned a little more about bear hunting , we found out we had 2 of them right from the start ! LOL
Good track or bad , if you didn't have another dog to them by the 3rd bark , they weren't gonna catch up till they caught up with the bear ! Been a long time since I've seen track dogs like that.
We've had start dogs since , but not like those two.

Having a good dual-purpose hound is no different than having a good coondog or a good bear dog.......It's just all about what a guy is willing to accept.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

grub , flip/flop too?!?!

i bet you could take some pretty good bear dogs and you would see a big perc. that wouldn't be real good coondogs?!thats what i am getting at also, breed to make them all GOOD DOGS!!.........Karl, you had really good blue fem. a few years ago that you liked alot on both, am i right ? morgan maybe?

The closest thing we have around here to a Big Game hound is the local Hog Dogs.
This morning I came out of the woods with my Full Blood Treeing Walkers, and ran into a Hog Hunter who had also been hunting.
He had two Wicked looking Hunting dogs.
They were scarred up, but still looked good.
One of them was three quarters Plott, and a Quarter Catohoula Cur. The other one was Half Leapord Half Running Walker.
They both had long ears, and hound mouths.
These guys dont care about pedigrees,and papers, they breed the ones that hunt, and do thier job. and Cull the ones that dont.

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GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

I am going to have to disagree with you guys on the coondog/bear dog deal. I know I've gone around with Jackbob on this before. Personally I think it takes a little more to be a good bear dog. Not just a dog that makes some trees, but one that makes it happen. I think a couple weeks is a pretty short evaluation time. I've got 3 months and still don't sometimes have ample enough time to evaluate all my dogs on bear.

I don't think it doesn't take much of a dog to make it to some bear trees with others dogs leading the way.

I know of a lot of whipped off bear dogs that make good cooners. I have a friend that exclusively uses them for his coon dogs and he is miffed if they don't get into double digit coon kills in hide season. All of these dogs will quit on a caught bear.

Most of my dogs are combo dogs and are allowed to run multiple critters. Some run bear/yotes, some I try to run bear/cats and some will run all 3. I have one I'd like to coon hunt a bit with, but just haven't had enough time in the fall with hunting other critters to hunt. I have some that want to run everything in the woods with fur or feathers. If you run combo dogs you have to settle for the fact that you are going to run a non target critter at some point. In our area when the rubber meets the road in kill season, no one I know uses a start dog that has been coon hunted hard. It would be very difficult to have a successfull long fall cold trail in our area with a dog that has an affection to run coon. It's hard enough for a coyote dog too, but if you can get them to lock on for awhile to the bear they won't switch. Most times good yote tracks will be farther away than a comparable coon track.

We all want dogs that have all traits/characteristics that are top knotch. The reality is each dog has some of them and it's up to the owner if what they have is enough.

Good dogs are tough to find regardless of what critter they are allowed to chase. Good hunting.

Nolte

Do the Bear Hunters, Cross Breed thier hounds like the Hog Hunters do? Just wondering.

Those Crossed up hounds I saw this morning were awesome looking.

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Home of
Log Woods Chester, Treeing Walker,

GRNITECH GR"CH "PR" KIZERS Bleedin Blue Slugger, Bluetick and PR Netherys Trixie Bluetick

quote:

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Originally posted by Nolte


1) I don't think it doesn't take much of a dog to make it to some bear trees with others dogs leading the way.

2) I know of a lot of whipped off bear dogs that make good cooners. I have a friend that exclusively uses them for his coon dogs and he is miffed if they don't get into double digit coon kills in hide season. All of these dogs will quit on a caught bear.

3) If you run combo dogs you have to settle for the fact that you are going to run a non target critter at some point. In our area when the rubber meets the road in kill season, no one I know uses a start dog that has been coon hunted hard.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by Nolte
.....In our area when the rubber meets the road in kill season, no one I know uses a start dog that has been coon hunted hard.

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__________________
Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Nethery
Do the Bear Hunters, Cross Breed thier hounds like the Hog Hunters do?

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