UKC Forums - Rule Qeustion

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Posted by Maniac on 05-31-2009 05:33 PM:

Rule Qeustion

LESTS SEE IF ANYONE KNOWS THIS ONE. CAN YOU TAKE STICK AND PECK ON THE TREE?

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Posted by jeffrey robinso on 05-31-2009 05:51 PM:

You can if dogs are treed and handled or if 7 minutes are up on the tree.

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 05-31-2009 05:55 PM:

"Can you" Well the answer is yes you "can". The real question is can you score a coon if seen that way. The rule says that you can only use a light and a squaller to "score" a coon. Therefore the stick could be seen as a "scoring" device and not allowable. That is the technically correct answer. I suppose it will depend on who officially weighs in from the UKC as to what their answer will be.

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Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 05-31-2009 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jeffrey robinso
You can if dogs are treed and handled or if 7 minutes are up on the tree.

Show me any rule that says you can use a stick and tap on a tree!

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Posted by Maniac on 05-31-2009 06:03 PM:

THIS RULE FALLS UNDER A PLACE OF REFUSE

Posted by Herbie Manns on 05-31-2009 06:51 PM:

answer no

the rule falls under house of reffuge

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Posted by ransom1 on 05-31-2009 07:12 PM:

answer

as long as all dogs are treed in this would be no different than pulling vines,i have found that that works better than a squaller or pulling vines in alot os cases.

Posted by georgef072007 on 05-31-2009 07:17 PM:

Interesting Question

Well, it isn't covered in any rule that I have seen in print, or even in the Advisor as far as I know. I have seen a lot of things used to make a noise to get a coon to look. Personally, I prefer a good big rock, gives out a nice sharp pop too.

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Posted by Maniac on 05-31-2009 07:32 PM:

HERES THE CORRECT AWNSERQUOTE]Originally posted by Herbie Manns
[B]the rule falls under house of reffuge

Posted by jeremy qualls on 05-31-2009 08:30 PM:

scoeing tree

depends on what judge u got and if he knows the rules like he supposed to

Posted by on 05-31-2009 08:37 PM:

Ask Allen G and I think he will tell you that beating on a tree with a stick is always under the exact same rule as squalling. They are treated the same. That also goes for clapping hands and shaking bushes. It all falls under the same rules as squalling.
The basis for this is rule 17 where it says " no squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dogs....." Beating on that tree would be considered an action rhat would interfere with a dog and you can't do until after the 7 minute mark unless all dogs struck are handled.

Posted by jeffrey robinso on 05-31-2009 08:38 PM:

Under rule 17 general information, it says the only mechanical devices that can be used is a light and a coon squaller. I don't think a stick would be classified as a mechanical device.

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 05-31-2009 08:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Ask Allen G and I think he will tell you that beating on a tree with a stick is always under the exact same rule as squalling. They are treated the same. That also goes for clapping hands and shaking bushes. It all falls under the same rules as squalling.
The basis for this is rule 17 where it says " no squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dogs....." Beating on that tree would be considered an action rhat would interfere with a dog and you can't do until after the 7 minute mark unless all dogs struck are handled.

It was ruled on and the stick was considered a scoring device! It is no different than using a mirror to look in a hole. PERHAPS SOME OF YOU NEED TO ASK ALLEN! Once you put a stick in your hand and use it that makes it a "scoring device"!
SOMEONE SHOW ME THE REFUGE RULE #! IT ISN'T IN THE MODERN DAY RULE BOOK!

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Posted by copperheadcreek on 05-31-2009 08:51 PM:

show everyone where you cant do this

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Posted by Rip on 05-31-2009 08:59 PM:

Clay, are you thinking of the World hunt that year they had the big lawsuit about beating the tree with a rock?

I never can remember how that turned out, seems it was reversed a time or two LOL.

I do remember reading about it in the cooner many years ago though, it was an interesting read. Seems like a vine was shook too or something and a dog came in????? It was a long time ago, but it is amazing how the World championship can come down to whether or not it was OK to use a rock.

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Posted by elvis on 05-31-2009 09:02 PM:

who made this rule up?

are we trying to find more ways to not be able score a coon for a dog that treed one?

Posted by on 05-31-2009 09:03 PM:

Well Clay, I think you are absolutely wrong on this one. Again, wait till Monday mourning.

Posted by MikeO on 05-31-2009 11:24 PM:

i have always thought you could use sticks and i have used them on several occasions. but they may have changed their minds about this. who knows? why not just make it impossible to score a coon!

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Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 06-01-2009 12:05 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Well Clay, I think you are absolutely wrong on this one. Again, wait till Monday mourning.

Allen ruled as such in 2007. Will Curtis was scratched for using a mirror during a hunt. In my conversation with Allen in 2007 he stated that Will couldn't be scratched for using the mirror. However the coon couldn't be scored because the only two things allowed to be used to score a coon were a light and a squaller. I FURTHER QUESTIONED HIM AS TO THE STICK TRICK AND WAS TOLD IT WAS NOT AUTHORIZED. ONCE YOU PICK UP AN OBJECT AND USE IT TO HELP YOU FIND A COON IT BECOMES A SCORING DEVICE! No Rip I was not referring the the World Hunt. I can read the rules and can comprehend what I am told!
I find it amazing that a man comes on here and asks a question and every Einstein in the country comes out of the wood work. If everyone knew the rules the way they think they do then the UKC wouldn't be flooded with hundreds of questions every Monday morning. CALL ALLEN AND HAVE HIM POST THE CORRECT ANSWER HERE! I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER I WAS GIVEN! THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T CHANGE THIS TIME!

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Posted by T Felderman on 06-01-2009 01:49 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
who made this rule up?

are we trying to find more ways to not be able score a coon for a dog that treed one?

kinda sounds like it.

Posted by GA DAWG on 06-01-2009 01:56 AM:

So,Clay by your ruling we cant even shake vines or little trees while squalling a tree? Those would also be devises I guess?

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Posted by Rip on 06-01-2009 01:57 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
Allen ruled as such in 2007. Will Curtis was scratched for using a mirror during a hunt. In my conversation with Allen in 2007 he stated that Will couldn't be scratched for using the mirror. However the coon couldn't be scored because the only two things allowed to be used to score a coon were a light and a squaller. I FURTHER QUESTIONED HIM AS TO THE STICK TRICK AND WAS TOLD IT WAS NOT AUTHORIZED. ONCE YOU PICK UP AN OBJECT AND USE IT TO HELP YOU FIND A COON IT BECOMES A SCORING DEVICE! No Rip I was not referring the the World Hunt. I can read the rules and can comprehend what I am told!
I find it amazing that a man comes on here and asks a question and every Einstein in the country comes out of the wood work. If everyone knew the rules the way they think they do then the UKC wouldn't be flooded with hundreds of questions every Monday morning. CALL ALLEN AND HAVE HIM POST THE CORRECT ANSWER HERE! I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER I WAS GIVEN! THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WON'T CHANGE THIS TIME!

Clay, I was only asking if that was the situation you were talking about. Meant nothing else by it, just remember there was a big stink about one of the world hunts and a rock/vine and wondered if that was the situation you were talking about. I honestly don't remember the outcome of that one.

Nowhere was I questioning your rules ability, I was just asking a simple question and hoping someone else remembered it and may remember the outcome.

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Posted by Wmagicwebb on 06-01-2009 02:05 AM:

id say a little common sense goes a long way what ever happened to the best dog wins rule

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Posted by Stokes08 on 06-01-2009 02:10 AM:

if you get scrathed because of that i will not hunt in a compition hunt ever again cause i dont even take a squaller i use my mouth so im a locating device so why even try to score it. HOW BOUT THE CANT USE A LASER POINTER TO POINT OUT TO THOSE BLIND FOLKS THE COON HOW IS THAT A LOCATING DEVICE IM PREETY SURE IF YOU ARE USING THE LASER POINTER YOU ALREADY FOUND HIM.

Posted by on 06-01-2009 05:00 AM:

Don't sweat it Stokes. There is no rule against banging on a tree if you can squall. Now if you take a stick and ram it in a hole or something like that, you have not only committed a scratch offense but in Indiana you have also violated the law. But banging on the side of a tree or shaking vines,bushes, etc. is not against any rule if you can squall.

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