UKC Forums - Rule Question

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Posted by Maniac on 03-31-2009 04:12 PM:

Rule Question

DOES A MAJORITY VOTE RULE OVER A HUNTING JUDGES DECISION ON A SCRATCHABLE OFFENSE?

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Posted by Big Bawler on 03-31-2009 04:20 PM:

i would say no....

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-31-2009 04:40 PM:

Gotta agree with Bawler. Not always. The misconception some folks have on "majority rules" is that regardless of the situation a majority vote will keep someone's dog from being written up or that there is no possibility for it to be overturned.

The intent or interpretation of "majority rules" is that when you have a question in the woods and there's a voting situation the matter will stand in accordance with voting specifics. That is unless someone is not satisfied with the vote in that something is being missed then they have the recourse to take it further by placing a question on the card for the Official to make a decision.

Yes, most majority votes do hold up but not all of them. A perfect example might be where in a three-dog-cast; two dogs get in a fight. The handlers of the two dogs that fought vote to not scratch the dogs? 2 to 1 vote over riding the judges ruling of scratching the dogs. Yeah right!

Posted by Maniac on 03-31-2009 04:43 PM:

WHAT ABOUT A 4 DOG CAST YOU HAVE A THREE TWO I VOTE

Posted by on 03-31-2009 05:08 PM:

Allen, I think you need to clarify something here. If a majority votes to overrule the judge in the woods, the majority vote must be reflected on the SCORECARD. Yes, it can be overturned by the MOH but how it goes on the card, in the woods, and until the MOH rules, is by majority vote. If 2 out 3 or 3 out 4 vote against the judge, the judge must put it on the card the way the majority voted.

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 03-31-2009 05:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Allen, I think you need to clarify something here. If a majority votes to overrule the judge in the woods, the majority vote must be reflected on the SCORECARD. Yes, it can be overturned by the MOH but how it goes on the card, in the woods, and until the MOH rules, is by majority vote. If 2 out 3 or 3 out 4 vote against the judge, the judge must put it on the card the way the majority voted.

That is correct. Then if the Judge disagrees with the decision he or she must question it and file the formal complaint if necessary, not the other way around.
Also Allen I asked you this very question this summer via phone from Autumn Oaks with several witnesses, including Jay, standing right there and you told me "every situation is votable with a hunting judge"! So what is the correct response?

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-31-2009 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Allen, I think you need to clarify something here. If a majority votes to overrule the judge in the woods, the majority vote must be reflected on the SCORECARD. Yes, it can be overturned by the MOH but how it goes on the card, in the woods, and until the MOH rules, is by majority vote. If 2 out 3 or 3 out 4 vote against the judge, the judge must put it on the card the way the majority voted.

Jim, you're exactly right with your clarification in that the majority vote would be reflected on the scorecard and would stand as such unless otherwise contested.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-31-2009 05:34 PM:

Clay, nothing has changed. EVERY situation is voteable. It's just that some won't change regardless of the vote if taken further.

Posted by roughcreek on 03-31-2009 05:49 PM:

Posted by Clay Lautzenhiser on 04-01-2009 06:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Clay, nothing has changed. EVERY situation is voteable. It's just that some won't change regardless of the vote if taken further.

Allen I have been on the road for a month or so and my brain is a little fried

. Could you please explain your answer a little further.
If I understand it correctly it goes like this. I am a judge and am getting my azz handed to me by a, lets say redbone, not that it will ever happen, but lets just say that. Anyway all I have to do is say that the redbone and black and tan were fighting, scratch them, let them vote on it, and then I question it and take it back to the MOH and he will side with me. Now as a MOH I am supposed to side with the judge even though I wasn't there, have three handlers saying different, and am being asked to make a "judgement call". Is this what you are saying?
Man am I confused. I though I was a rule junkie and a GOOD MOH. It turns out that I don't know chit!

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