UKC Forums - Is It time to do away with purina points shows at Breed Days- Breed sectionals?

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-- Is It time to do away with purina points shows at Breed Days- Breed sectionals? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=267071)

Posted by Robert Welch on 03-30-2009 12:13 AM:

Is It time to do away with purina points shows at Breed Days- Breed sectionals?

I want to know how many of you think that the Purina points shows are seriously affecting the respective number of show entries of that respective breed at our Larger Breed Days and larger Breed sectionals that are on the Purina Points show schedule? Any body have any idea to correct the current trend of Purina show dogs dominating the Breed days and Sectionals. I'm not against the Purina Show just believe that Breed Days shows are held to promote that breed and lately this isn't the case!

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Posted by Kevin Self on 03-30-2009 12:41 AM:

May the best dog win..

Posted by rance56 on 03-30-2009 01:29 AM:

hey, we got a one breed rqe, how about one breed purina points show!

as the president said, "kind of like watching the special olympics."
j/k

Kevin-I think you are right on with your post.

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Posted by Mark A. Hauck on 03-30-2009 02:44 AM:

hey, we got a one breed rqe, how about one breed purina points show!

as the president said, "kind of like watching the special olympics."
j/k

Kevin-I think you are right on with your post.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

better check out page 149 of the April issue of Bloodlines for the Thursday night events for 2009 B&T days

If your breed organizations bring in qualified judges, it should not matter and yes may the best dog win.

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Posted by dual walkers on 03-30-2009 03:07 AM:

purina shows

hey my oponion is that all breed days are going to have a king and queen of that breed so what is the grip your going to win that breed if you have the best of that breed the purina points only draw more dogs to that event the judges are what keeps people from coming ive talked to 4 different people that show alot and they didnt go to english days this weekend because of the judges and to some that arent going to other shows because of the judges i think they shouldnt tell whoes judgeing and let everone come and see didnt know they had a one breed rqe but they might its news to me the top show dogs are going to go and see if they can win all breed days and the top national shows so if you cant keep up ride at your own pace me im just ideling right know ill mash the gas next year see you at a show sometime

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Posted by Buck Houser on 03-30-2009 02:28 PM:

shows

I don't even know why this is being questioned. I mean heck are you not up for competition? If there is not, there should be a king and queen of the show and the hunt for that specific breed for that breed days. In my opinion you have some options here
1. stay and home
2. go and compete and do your best with what you have
3. breed better dogs and stop complaining
If anything the purina race has helped most breed days in numbers not hurt them. JMO..

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Posted by mrbluedog on 03-30-2009 02:50 PM:

You all need to get BBCHA to do it like BBOA and bring back all gr.ch. ch. and breed winners for the King and Queen. I think we should all be boy cotting Purina any way as much as they are wanting us to pay for there food and now have cut back on the size as well

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 03-30-2009 04:23 PM:

I tend to agree with Mr. Blue dog here. Would like to know how many purina race winners were actually winning on purina dog food?

Also, personally would like to see at breed days, a seperate class for dogs actually entered and competing in the nite hunt. Really I would like to see this at all major hunts. Maybe create a new dual ch. title for this type of show competition between hounds actually entered in the HUNT.

Posted by Buck Houser on 03-30-2009 04:34 PM:

purina

Most of the dogs that I know that are hunting and showing in the purina shows and nite hunts are fed purina. Do yourself a favor and ask them.

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 03-30-2009 05:08 PM:

10-4 Buck.

Posted by Cynthia on 03-30-2009 05:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mrbluedog
You all need to get BBCHA to do it like BBOA and bring back all gr.ch. ch. and breed winners for the King and Queen. I think we should all be boy cotting Purina any way as much as they are wanting us to pay for there food and now have cut back on the size as well

unless its changed, BBOA will let any blue dog that entered the show return for K/Q even if they did not win their class.

BBCHA will only let the blue winners return, which leads to only 1 of each male/female or sometimes none of one sex. not fair to breed.

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Posted by keithbluemoon on 03-30-2009 08:05 PM:

Well

The judges need to pick dogs not purina leaders!!! or handlers!!!

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Posted by HOBO on 03-30-2009 08:36 PM:

If the breed doesn't have a dog thats good enough to beat the other breeds they shouldn't be winning anyway.

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Posted by Cody Carroll on 03-30-2009 09:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by HOBO
If the breed doesn't have a dog thats good enough to beat the other breeds they shouldn't be winning anyway.

hobo, you hit the nail on the head

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Posted by mrbluedog on 03-30-2009 11:53 PM:

Cynthia the BBOA just bring back the reg. breed winners

Posted by mrbluedog on 03-30-2009 11:56 PM:

Just cause a grch. blue gyp gets beat by a walker or something should not eliminate it from competing for the queen of shows after all it is suppose to be the best if the breed that wins it

Posted by bluefrost316 on 03-31-2009 02:27 AM:

BBOA brings back all best of class winners in open Reg and all Champions and Grand Champions entered for King and Queen of Show. This allows those blue dogs tha get beat by other breeds to show for King and Queen. After all King and Queen of show at BBOA events is to select the best blueticks.

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Posted by Buck Houser on 03-31-2009 02:50 AM:

Re: Well

quote:
Originally posted by keithbluemoon
The judges need to pick dogs not purina leaders!!! or handlers!!!

Well... keithbluemoon, are you saying that dogs that are winning purina shows shouldnt be picked or considered? Why is that? If they are the best there why not pick them. Regardless of what breed the are. You sound bitter like some others on here. As far as handlers go.. I don't know why you would say that either. I guess you are saying that if you show a dog and win some with him in a purina show that makes you a slick handeler or somthin? I guess if you were doing the winning you would not feel this way huh? JMO....

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Posted by on 03-31-2009 02:00 PM:

EDUCATION

Its OLD! This has been an ongoing joke. People bickering over who's the handler, who's the winner, what they just won...its just a face/name game... this has been going on since the 70's it hasn't changed its not going to change... those that win just win. Those that loose just loose. We have to have a winner and we have to have a looser!

Yes a winning dog might carry himself through the year. Winning and putting your face on the interent and in the magazine HELPS! But taking it out on these owners / handlers isn't the way to take care of the "politics" as we've come to call it! Educating our judges more, asking them to give more detailed reasons publicly .... educating other breeders and owners and handlers... that's how we fix this! Not ranting and raving at each other!!!!

UKC needs to do with coonhound bench show judges what they do with conformation judges. They take pride in educating more and more judges, so why not inforce it with bench show judges. They set standards that each judge must reach and accomplish. They require you to become more educated over a perioud of time. I know numerous folks that passed the bench show test, because it was a group effort. Are they qualified to judge? Not in my book. If they can't take a written test without the help of others then they are serious enough to do the job asked of them.

The sport of "showing dogs" has become a serious issue with a lot of us, and its more then a hobby to most! So we deserve quality judges that are willing to continue the stride to educate on what is correct movement, shoulder lay, and rear angulation. But its just as important as a breeder, owner, handler to know what these things are also. You don't want to keep promoting a dog that's all feet and legs, you need the entire package.

In short, the entire showing thing works full circle. Judges need to understand what is correct and not correct, they need to give detailed reasons to the crowd of what it is they see and why they picked a dog, not just "his dog had tighter feet"! And we as exhibitors and breeders need to listen. We need to educate ourselves on what is correct. If we get beat by one style of dog over and over and over...then stop producing / showing that style.

We are always EDUCATING ourselves to get ahead with our job to provide a better life for our family. Why wouldn't we take our showing of dogs just as serious!

Posted by joseph mcdonald on 03-31-2009 03:28 PM:

I agree on more judge education. I have been beat on the bench by hounds that DO NOT meet breed standard. For instance: White Blueticks? I've seen several win in big shows. Then on the other hand the Black blueticks with slight ticking on the bottom part of their legs? To quote the breed standard "preference running to more blue than black on body" "The amount of blue ticking should control over the amount of white in the body coat. Off colors not allowed"

Now before anyone gets mad at me, Im just stating my opinion and the breed standard.

Posted by Buck Houser on 03-31-2009 03:49 PM:

Joeseph

Nobody mad at you here buddy! I have blues and walkers. I can't stand these blueticks that are being shown that are blanketback. It so against the breed standard as you stated in your post. I like my blues ticked up not blanketback or even saddle. Makes me wonder whats really in the blanket back blues...JMO

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Posted by Robert Welch on 03-31-2009 06:39 PM:

Re: Joeseph

quote:
Originally posted by Buck Houser
Nobody mad at you here buddy! I have blues and walkers. I can't stand these blueticks that are being shown that are blanketback. It so against the breed standard as you stated in your post. I like my blues ticked up not blanketback or even saddle. Makes me wonder whats really in the blanket back blues...JMO

Actually probably the same thing that is in the Blanket back walkers they both came from the english breed some 65 years ago. Ever think that line breeding blues the same way the walkers are being bred might get a bunch of blanket back blues.I've noticed that they we are getting more all the time! I got one here now!

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Posted by Buck Houser on 03-31-2009 06:50 PM:

Robert

I hear what you are saying and there is probably some truth in it but but do you like your blueticks that way? I am not real fond of them like that. JMO though....

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Posted by Otis Spunkmeyer on 03-31-2009 07:54 PM:

ruht roh raggy

wait til Cynthia sees this she will rip you guys a new one lol I however agree with yall totally get rid of the blanket back blueticks not to standard no way no how should they ever win a show same for the monkey faces and black heads and all black faces blue breed needs some serious house cleaning done to make up for what these breeders have done in the last 10-15 years it took 50 years to get rid of it the first time around

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Posted by Cynthia on 03-31-2009 09:25 PM:

Re: ruht roh raggy

quote:
Originally posted by Otis Spunkmeyer
wait til Cynthia sees this she will rip you guys a new one lol I however agree with yall totally get rid of the blanket back blueticks not to standard no way no how should they ever win a show same for the monkey faces and black heads and all black faces blue breed needs some serious house cleaning done to make up for what these breeders have done in the last 10-15 years it took 50 years to get rid of it the first time around

well, since you think I will rip a new one, I'll try to be nice.

Trish, I agree with what your saying, but this thread headed into the question of why BBCHA does not pick a blue to return for king/queen as do other associations...it makes the association look bad to either not have a king/queen or only have 1 of each to compete..(where's the competition?)

Blanketback dogs....hmmm. I'm kinda fond of them. The litter I had there was only 1 open spotted pup. Someone else liked him. All blue - I dont like them, I like the brown on the legs and face. I have not been in this as long as others have but what I have seen is that there is more variety in the bluetick breed than any other (except maybe plotts/english)...that is a good thing. If we all had to have the same type of dog, we might as well get a walker.

maybe that's the reason I get overlooked for my handling skills (or lack thereof) and/or my dog's coloring??? I do know that my one male, TT, is pretty much black. I get a lot of compliments on him and how he looks and the way he's built, but he is not the preferred coloration for the standards.

with that being said, if all items are equal, then yes the coloring will get me every time. BUT, if the coloring is the ONLY reason for not picking a blanket back or blacker dog, then something is wrong. When legs/feet, head and chest are more important than color, judges need to look again. color is one item that will not prevent a dog from hunting (its dark, cant see it anyway) - I'll leave that alone as conformation will start an argument. I do not prefer an all blue or "monkey face" dog in my kennel, that does not mean that there are some out there that meet standards regardless of color.

did anyone see the BBCHA yearbook? did anyone notice how many BLANKET BACK dogs were winning in the shows? hmmm, maybe blanket back is coming back!!

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