UKC Forums - ? on line breeding

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-- ? on line breeding (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=256288)

Posted by kutterhunter on 02-11-2009 04:38 AM:

? on line breeding

how close can you breed without bad things happening? Just curious there is a cross Id like to make but Im nervice about it being too close. If anybody has any opinions Id like to hear them. thanks in advance..

Posted by Curly Fry on 02-11-2009 05:00 AM:

Post the pedigree of both dogs and we can analyze.

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Posted by kutterhunter on 02-11-2009 05:10 AM:

dont really want to post the ped. but?

I was thinking father daughter or half brother sister cross and dont be affraid to tell me its a bad idea, I just want to know what peoples experiences have been. thanks

Posted by josh on 02-11-2009 05:16 AM:

Just like any cross.

If it works it was a great idea.
If it dosent it was a bad idea.

I wouldent be affraid of a tight cross, but I wouldent do it just for the sake of making a tight cross either.

Posted by Related on 02-11-2009 05:25 AM:

them

crosses is no good and bad health problems and most will be csazey.unceal to neice is the onley way to go and that is a tite line breed but the father to doughter or half sibling is inbreeding at the worst and the papers will be inbread on them.my sealf personley i would not do it.line breeding is great if dun the rite way but still you need to breed COON DOG TO COON DOG PAPERS DONT TREE COON

Posted by kutterhunter on 02-11-2009 05:42 AM:

thanks for the input

I wouldnt be breeding for papers, I just like what i got here and was just curious about breeding back into the same but the uncle to neice is a definate possibility. thanks again and if youve tried this what has happened?

Posted by STAR on 02-11-2009 10:35 AM:

Go For It !

You only live once , shoot the puck up the ice ! The only person you should be worried about is you and what you want , think anyone else gives a dam , there are pups being born everyday from all types of crosses , make the one you want to do , Don't be affraid to give'r , no guts no glory .

Posted by mrbluedog on 02-11-2009 10:52 AM:

father ,daughter ,half brother sister and uncle niece is all inbreeding and alot of people have done it and alot of good dogs have come from cross like that.I will be doing some half brother to sister cross's along with uncle to niece and yes if the ole man was around father to daughter it will show what you have good and bad.

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Posted by Skyward on 02-11-2009 11:22 AM:

Linebreeding within a particular family won't "create" bad things. Genetics don't work that way.

Posted by Bluedogman on 02-11-2009 11:40 AM:

I have three dogs from a father/daughter breeding. They are now five years old. I haven't seen anything at all wrong with them mentally or physically.

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Posted by triker on 02-11-2009 12:03 PM:

im going to be breeding granddaughter to grandfather here in a few days. thanks ron

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Posted by Curly Fry on 02-11-2009 12:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by mrbluedog
father ,daughter ,half brother sister and uncle niece is all inbreeding and alot of people have done it and alot of good dogs have come from cross like that.I will be doing some half brother to sister cross's along with uncle to niece and yes if the ole man was around father to daughter it will show what you have good and bad.

Now i know why you can still hunt BLUE all nite in a 2 acre patch of timber.

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Posted by josh on 02-11-2009 12:55 PM:

UKC does NOT stamp the papers "inbred".

Posted by mrbluedog on 02-11-2009 01:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Curly Fry
Now i know why you can still hunt BLUE all nite in a 2 acre patch of timber.

It is done in all breeds but bring the best you got down ! here you need a dog to get deep .If you like what you got why not double up on it ? Like I said though bring the best you got I promise you wont out hunt anything on my yard

Posted by Lakeland Kennel on 02-11-2009 01:19 PM:

Up close breeding depends on the traits and genes of the dogs involved. If they are good enough, the cross can be great. We bred Dual Grand Champion Buckshot II to his grandmother and got Dual Grand Champion Dolly.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-11-2009 01:26 PM:

Re: ? on line breeding

quote:
Originally posted by kutterhunter
how close can you breed without bad things happening? Just curious there is a cross Id like to make but Im nervice about it being too close. If anybody has any opinions Id like to hear them. thanks in advance..

Lot's of good information already on this post.

Let me explain to you what these folks are trying to tell you.

How close you can breed, and how many times you can "get close" without "bad things happening" are a result of how sound your breeding stock is.

Example...let's say that back in the second generation of your half-brother X half-sister cross, there is a dog that had seizures. Now you don't have any way of knowing that...but it did. If you breed those two ancestors of that dog that had seizures, you are more likely to get pups that have seizures....if you breed that next generation of pups together, again in a half brother half sister fashion...more of your pups are likely to be born with a seizure disorder....

So basically, if you want to find out what kind of genetic skeletons are hiding in your closet...linebreeding and inbreeding are a good way to find them. However, if you are line breeding, you are not introducing buggymen into your genetics....you can't "create" bad things, just uncover them.

On the other side of the coin, by outcrossing, we just keep burying those bad traits. They end up "popping up" unexpectedly from time to time.....but many dogs may be carriers!

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Posted by mrbluedog on 02-11-2009 01:34 PM:

Good post Joe.

Posted by Bluedogman on 02-11-2009 02:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
UKC does NOT stamp the papers "inbred".

Mine do have 'inbred' on them .

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Posted by DOUG CHEEK on 02-11-2009 02:34 PM:

JOE there are some FINE people come out of KY ----lol lol lol lol

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 02-11-2009 02:55 PM:

O.K. to take this a step further. Research shows that if you have relatively healthy stock in the first place, you can inbred to about the level of 20% inbreeding coefficient without adverse effects.

Once you start to constantly reach above the 20%COI you can start to experience a reduce litter size and smaller offspring. When this happens it is referred to as inbreeding depression.

For the record, with top stock a half brother/half sister cross can be a very good cross.

Doug right now the ACLU office in Kentucky is probably getting a phone call

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Posted by Skyward on 02-11-2009 02:57 PM:

Breeding in this manner also has the potential to provide you with a very dominant producing stud/gyp. Especially with the level of scatter breeding that takes place throughout the breed.

Posted by MJL/MJL on 02-11-2009 03:05 PM:

breedings

it would be nice to see people feel this way about breeding worthless gyps to good or worthless stud dogs. some people breed just to get pups when a breeder should be breeding to get as good or better than what he already has

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Posted by davebastean on 02-11-2009 03:07 PM:

I wouldn't be afraid of it unless both dogs have a common fault or flaw. If you like both dogs and they have solid breeding behind them I would try it.

Posted by Skyward on 02-11-2009 03:09 PM:

From what I have seen, Oak Ridge has, in my opinion, some of the best available options for utilizing in this manner. Bred tight and bred true will enable you to more accurately pair up with a gyp and provide a bit more consistency in the litter.

Posted by Rip on 02-11-2009 03:09 PM:

As usual great info from Larry and Oak Ridge on the science of line breeding and genetics.

I have always heard this saying, if you wouldn't be satisfied with another one JUST LIKE IT then DON'T breed it.

I would say it's pretty accurate myself.

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