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-- Opramas "spendulous" bill = Death of healthcare. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=256004)

Opramas "spendulous" bill = Death of healthcare.

Guess what folks, Oprama has inserted socalized medicine into this spending package.

That's right, it appoints a healthcare Czar and gubment panel.

All doctors will be required to do things exactly like the gubment says, no patient care involved. If your disease is a little different or needs a little different care that's tough you can't have it.

If you are determined to be too old, no matter how good of health you are in, you will be denied sugery/treatment.

Of course they will have a gubment panel, not doctors, make those "tough decisions".

Won't it be fun to be like the rest of the world and wait 2 years for medical treatment? I can't wait.

http://nomayo.mu.nu/stimulating_socialism

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Let's go huntin

I heard a local doctor talking about this tonight at my son's B-Ball practice.

He said he had not seen anything like this except in Russia and Europe.



Did you happen to hear the one democrat tell people that they need to start accepting that when they grow old they need to accept the illnesses and failing health that comes with it and to quit getting treatment after treatment??

Basically he said they just need to grow old and die and get out of the way.

Of course, this is coming from a political party that sees fit to send American tax dollars to help murder unborn children across the world.

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HardRock Nocturnal Jeffery

So I can cancel my health insurance and with all the extra money I will save I can afford to pay my taxes....maybe. Then I can also forget about needing life insurance since the gov't will try to find a way to let me die early anyhow. I can use that money to try to cover my other taxes that will be going up like my property tax will be to cover the dollars that state, local and county government is cutting right now after years of sticking it to us.

The one that get's me is the free health care for "ILLEGAL IMMAGRANT'S" !!

If they know their illegal kickum back across the borden which ever direction they need to go instead of having "US" pay for the health care that some of our own can't even get.

Head scratchin kinda stuff ??

quote:

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Originally posted by Two toes
The one that get's me is the free health care for "ILLEGAL IMMAGRANT'S" !!

If they know their illegal kickum back across the borden which ever direction they need to go instead of having "US" pay for the health care that some of our own can't even get.

Head scratchin kinda stuff ??

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HardRock Nocturnal Jeffery

My wife is an RN at a hospital in Baltimore, all the doctors have been talking about it. its also going to come down to who has the $$ to pay for the extra treatments, in other words follow government treatments or pay out the .....

The USA as we new it is gone gone gone

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Jeff Wilson

quote:

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Originally posted by jtwsr
My wife is an RN at a hospital in Baltimore, all the doctors have been talking about it. its also going to come down to who has the $$ to pay for the extra treatments, in other words follow government treatments or pay out the .....

The USA as we new it is gone gone gone

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HardRock Nocturnal Jeffery

Lawmakers in 20 states move to reclaim sovereignty
Obama's $1 trillion deficit-spending 'stimulus plan' seen as last straw
Posted: February 06, 2009
11:50 pm Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily


NEW YORK – As the Obama administration attempts to push through Congress a nearly $1 trillion deficit spending plan that is weighted heavily toward advancing typically Democratic-supported social welfare programs, a rebellion against the growing dominance of federal control is beginning to spread at the state level.

So far, eight states have introduced resolutions declaring state sovereignty under the Ninth and Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, including Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma and Washington.

Analysts expect that in addition, another 20 states may see similar measures introduced this year, including Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, Maine and Pennsylvania.

"What we are trying to do is to get the U.S. Congress out of the state's business," Oklahoma Republican state Sen. Randy Brogdon told WND.

"Congress is completely out of line spending trillions of dollars over the last 10 years putting the nation into a debt crisis like we've never seen before," Brogdon said, arguing that the Obama stimulus plan is the last straw taxing state patience in the brewing sovereignty dispute.

"This particular 111th Congress is the biggest bunch of over-reachers and underachievers we've ever had in Congress," he said.

"A sixth-grader should realize you can't borrow money to pay off your debt, and that is the Obama administration's answer for a stimulus package," he added.

The Ninth Amendment reads, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

The Tenth Amendment specifically provides, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Brogdon, the lead sponsor of the Oklahoma state senate version of the sovereignty bill, has been a strong opponent of extending the plan to build a four-football-fields-wide Trans-Texas Corridor parallel to Interstate-35 to Oklahoma, as WND reported.

Rollback federal authority

The various sovereignty measures moving through state legislatures are designed to reassert state authority through a rollback of federal authority under the powers enumerated in the Constitution, with the states assuming the governance of the non-enumerated powers, as required by the Tenth Amendment.

The state sovereignty measures, aimed largely at the perceived fiscal irresponsibility of Congress in the administrations of Bill Clinton and George W. Bush, have gained momentum with the $1 trillion deficit-spending economic stimulus package the Obama administration is currently pushing through Congress.

Particularly disturbing to many state legislators are the increasing number of "unfunded mandates" that have proliferated in social welfare programs, such as Medicare and Medicaid, in which bills passed by Congress dictate policy to the states without providing funding.

In addition, the various state resolutions include discussion of a wide range of policy areas, including the regulation of firearms sales (Montana) and the demand to issue drivers licenses with technology to embed personal information under the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative and the Real ID Act (Michigan).

Hawaii's measure calls for a new state constitutional convention to return self-governance, a complaint that traces back to the days it was a U.S. territory, prior to achieving statehood in 1959.

"We are trying to send a message to the federal government that the states are trying to reclaim their sovereignty," Republican Rep. Matt Shea, the lead sponsor of Washington's sovereignty resolution told WND.

"State sovereignty has been eroded in so many areas, it's hard to know where to start," he said. "There are a ton of federal mandates imposed on states, for instance, on education spending and welfare spending."

Shea said the Obama administration's economic stimulus package moving through Congress is a "perfect example."

"In the state of Washington, we have increased state spending 33 percent in the last three years and hired 6,000 new state employees, often using federal mandates as an excuse to grow state government," he said. "We need to return government back down to the people, to keep government as close to the local people as possible."

Shea is a private attorney who serves with the Alliance Defense Fund, a nationwide network of about 1,000 attorneys who work pro-bono. As a counter to the ACLU, the alliance seeks to protect and defend religious liberty, the sanctity of life and traditional family values.

Republican state Rep. Judy Burges, the primary sponsor of the sovereignty resolution in the Arizona House, told WND the federal government "has been trouncing on our constitutional rights."

"The real turning point for me was the Real ID act, which involved both a violation of the Fourth Amendments rights against the illegal searches and seizures and the Tenth Amendment," she said.

Burges told WND she is concerned that the overreaching of federal powers could lead to new legislation aimed at confiscating weapons from citizens or encoding ammunition.

"The Real ID Act was so broadly written that we are afraid that it involves the potential for "mission-creep," that could easily involve confiscation of firearms and violations of the Second Amendment," she said.

Burges said she has been surprised at the number of e-mails she has received in support of the sovereignty measure.

"We are a sovereign state in Arizona, not a branch of the federal government, and we need to be treated as such, she insisted.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index....mp;pageId=88218

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Jeff Wilson

Don't forget that this gubment regulation of healthcare your doctors decisions will be "guided" by people with absolutely no medical training who's only goal will be to decrease cost and deny care.

Get ready to be denied dialysis over age 50 or so, and certian surgery if over age. Your personal health doesn't matter, only your age. It's already that way in other countries, countries that Oprama would like the US to be more like (Russia, Austraila, Europe). That's right, they just tell you "too bad, so sad you're too old. Go home and tell your family good bye, you are too old to treat so you are going to die".

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Let's go huntin

Another article from a Canadian policy maker on what kinds of things we can expect with Opramas socialized medicine.

Too Old for Hip Surgery

Mr. Esmail, based in Calgary, is the director of Health System Performance Studies at The Fraser Institute.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123413701032661445.html

Man ain't that gonna be grand? It's gonna be so much fun for everyone to have to suffer for years before being allowed to have a surgery, or to have loved ones die waiting in line.

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Let's go huntin

My sister lives in Canada

She couldn't keep food down while in bed at night. She had to wait 3 months for a doctor appointment and then another 2 months for them to tell her she had a stomach ulcer. She also started having excrutiating pain in her legs & had to wait 8 months to see a neurologist. She said that the Canadians who can afford it are going to the US for medical treatment.
Guess that's going to change. She also mentioned that the Canadians are already saying they pity Americans if this healthcare plan goes through.

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SKY
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Author of the novel "Follow Jennifer"

it's doomed to fail.....

free health care almost broke Tennessee, it is breaking Hawaii, it is crap in Canada and it is crap in every other country.... why do the looney libs think it will work here????? Socialized health care is the only way they can be 100% sure that every illeagal is covered.....

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ringtail dave

"TREE MY DOG" - NO BETTER FEELING

NAADP Charter Member....... appointed by King Dave himself........

Yep, and it's on its way to all of us. The problem is now the citizens of those other countries all come here for treatment. Now we won't have anywhere we can go, we're just up the creek.

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Let's go huntin

STUPID IDIOTS is all I can say..DANG!!!!!! If these loosers would get out and get a job.They would not have a need for free healthcare...I still cant help but to wanna run all cars off the rd that have obama bumper stickers!!!

Rip,
once again believe we need a national health plan, not especially national health insurance, but leadership-direction that allows doctors such as yourself to practice medicine for the benefit of the patient not the insurance companies, etc... no doubt that canada has shortcomings, so do we... as always $$$$ is key to getting what one might need... hope that we can extend-expand health care as well as improve it... do not believe there are easy answers, but vital that we offer the best health care in the world to as many people as possible....

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
STUPID IDIOTS is all I can say..DANG!!!!!! If these loosers would get out and get a job.They would not have a need for free healthcare...I still cant help but to wanna run all cars off the rd that have obama bumper stickers!!! Key word wanna! CHILL OUT GA.

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Never forget Never surrender.... The red white and blue!

!!!

Yall are fricken goof balls !!!!

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<> <> OKIESAWYERS KENNEL <> <>
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**COONDOG MAFIA MEMBER**


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Houndmen Deluxe:
www.deer-creek.org

Re: !!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Shelby D. Sawyers
Yall are fricken goof balls !!!!

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Let's go huntin

High deductable is for catastrophic illness. You should budget for routine healthcare and for goodness sake don't run to the doctor for every little sniffle. You don't need a doctor for a cold.

Or, if you do have enough health issues to spend alot of time at the doctor then you should buy a lower deductible plan.

Heck you aren't "forced" into any insurance plan (matter of fact over half the quoted uninsured number are uninsured by choice).

The difference is that under the current system you still get treated, even if you didn't buy that plan, and you get the best treatment that you and your doctor agree on.

Under socialized medicine you get the care the gubment says you must have, and if it is deemed to expensive tough your doctor won't be allowed to treat you. Instead of doctors making reccomendations based on your individual situation. Some gubment worker that doesn't know squat about healthcare will decide if you get treated.

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Let's go huntin

If you don't want politicians deciding whether or not your doctor can treat you then you need to call your representative/congressmen NOW.

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Let's go huntin

search "directive 10-289" -this was all predicted 50yrs ago. it will get worse.

Rip,
now that choice is made by insrance companies, HMOS, PPOS, etc.... would much rather have it made by medical pros such as yourself, need to get to that situation, but that will not happen under present situation... need national health plan, not especially a national health insurance program, but something that allows the medical profession to practice medicine unemcumbered and people the ability to access-afford the same, not in place now....

See that's the thing, lots of time the doc can win if the insurance company doesn't want something.

Even if they can't win it's not ILLEGAL for the doc to go through with the treatment, he/she just knows they won't get paid by the insurance company.

What we are talking about now is some beuracrat with absolutely no medical training forcing the doctors to treat all patients the exact same way. All people are different and the same treatment doesn't always apply. That's why we can't use computers and an algorhythm to treat people. That's where the art of medicine comes in to play.

The gubment is taking that away from the doctor and patient. They want check box medicine, and it would be ILLEGAL for the doctor to save a patients life that the gubment deemed "hopeless". Sometimes the patient does beat the odds, Tom Dashole doesn't care.

That's the difference, the insurance companies can influence some things, but the doc and patient are still FREE to do what they see fit, knowing in advance insurance company X won't pay for it but they can make the decision together that it is worth it.

Under Dasholes plan there will be none of that, if the gubment decides the odds are against you and your treatment wouldn't be cost effective, then tough. If a doc tries to save you then he/she is up on charges/fined and I promise you the goal is to eventually be able to imprison docs that don't go along with their "population control" medicine.

This hits close to home for me because I am one that "beat the odds" on cancer. My chances were way less than 20% but the docs did the surgery anyway and now I have had 22 more years. Under the gubments system I would have likely died at 18.

THAT'S what I am talking about.

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Let's go huntin

great to hear about your return to good health-now helping others to do the same.... all for what you suggest, just not happening now, need same movement toward that end, will not happen unless the power of gov't. leads the effort....

You hit it Rip when you said Population control.....Pelosi's population control is exactly their train of thought.....


Ron, We may need something that guarantees people are treated that needs treating no matter if insured or not but what is being offered is not the answer nor does it make things better....


They are trying to pass a deal where families making 84,400.00 or less can have there children covered free.....Statistics show that 2/3 of the people that would take part of this plan would already have coverage but this would make their childs insurance free....One part even makes it to families of 4 make 100K....Once again the pragram does not work and costs the taxpayer so people can save $40.00 a week.....All this to is really to get the socialized medicine pervebial foot in the door....training people to be reliant on government....

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Kevin Duck
blueduck_ranch@yahoo.com