UKC Forums - should ukc single register dogs

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-- should ukc single register dogs (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=254533)

Posted by rance56 on 02-03-2009 07:49 PM:

should ukc single register dogs

that are known to not be of pure blood?

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Posted by GA DAWG on 02-03-2009 09:58 PM:

They do..You not remember the black and tan,walker dog that was registered a few yrs ago?

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 02-03-2009 10:06 PM:

UKC only Reg.s the Hound after Org. Hound Association has Approved of the Hound in question.

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Posted by Justin Smith on 02-03-2009 10:28 PM:

All our coonhounds were started with crosses that nicked , if someone comes up with another nick that looks the part and meets the standards ... then why wouldn't you want new blood ?

You gotta have variation ... natures knows this and that's why dominant males run off young males and such ... and a super bad stray male can come take over a pride or herd .

Same for livestock , all your purebred farms of about every kind are always looking for the right cross of fresh blood to amp up their flocks or herds.

Besides ... like for the million ... jillion ... trillion-th time ..... UKC doesn't set the rules for this stuff , the breed clubs do ...

Posted by Plottluvr on 02-03-2009 10:46 PM:

I think they should single register dogs. Use pics to help identify the dog.

My Buckskin pups parents are UKC reg but I can't get her AKC registered until she's registered somewhere else. UKC doesn't recognize Buckskin. I can get her a limited reg. but her pups (if she has any) can't be registered.

Posted by joseph mcdonald on 02-03-2009 11:03 PM:

Mr. Smith, are you for real? Why dont you take your half breed, mixed up junk and contact nkc or something. There are so many seperate strains within each breed now that there is no reason for mixing crap and putting it back in the breed. pkc has a crossbreed program,i believe you need to look into that. Wow, I cant believe someone has zero respect for the work all the breeders had to do to straighten out the breeds when they started them, because of the mixing, etc.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-03-2009 11:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Mr. Smith, are you for real? Why dont you take your half breed, mixed up junk and contact nkc or something. There are so many seperate strains within each breed now that there is no reason for mixing crap and putting it back in the breed. pkc has a crossbreed program,i believe you need to look into that. Wow, I cant believe someone has zero respect for the work all the breeders had to do to straighten out the breeds when they started them, because of the mixing, etc.

Look, I don't really care one way or another.

I know that over the years that have been much worse things introduced into all of the breeds. Border collies cross pretty well with walkers...and with english dogs from what I hear....

I guess if it were up to me, I would rather see a guy "single register" a dog that is of mixed breed, where he can be HONEST about the heritage of the dog. The rules that are put forth by the Black and Tan folks, lead to lying about heritage, and the dog still gets single registered....

Far as I'm concerned, if you don't like walkers mixed in with your black dogs...don't make a rule that says "no walkers allowed" because it's going to happen, only now you won't know it!

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 02-03-2009 11:33 PM:

Joe, and to think I just told a guy to get ahold of you to try your hounds then you say this. lol.

Seriously I just dont believe in it. Some food for thought also, we talked several years ago about calico ears and blue eyes. I wanted to tell you that the goodman strain of american foxhounds come complete with calico ears blue eyes and flag tails, some are even wavy coated. Possible goodman influence in the early start of some of those lines.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 02-03-2009 11:43 PM:

Single Reg. has Nothing to Do with UKC ..
If you have a beef with Single Reg. you need to take it up with Your breed Association "They Know whats best for their Breed" If they Think they have a need for New Blood or Total Outcrosses it is their Disscision Only .. UKC only handles the Paperwork ...

Posted by burdette on 02-03-2009 11:46 PM:

i think they should have a crossbred breed like pkc.

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Posted by Reds4Me on 02-04-2009 01:52 AM:

I think if the dog meets standard and can tree a coon, why not? There are plenty of pure bloods out there that can't even do that.

Posted by pjeremie on 02-04-2009 02:03 AM:

i agree with reds4me. i have seen plenty of purebreds that are crap.

Posted by oliesmith on 02-04-2009 03:02 PM:

You guys that don't like cross bred dogs go down take your best an hunt with HARDROCK

Posted by Justin Smith on 02-04-2009 03:06 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Mr. Smith, are you for real? Why dont you take your half breed, mixed up junk and contact nkc or something. There are so many seperate strains within each breed now that there is no reason for mixing crap and putting it back in the breed. pkc has a crossbreed program,i believe you need to look into that. Wow, I cant believe someone has zero respect for the work all the breeders had to do to straighten out the breeds when they started them, because of the mixing, etc.

I don't have any mixed breeds right now .. and I sure aint got no junk .

Is that what you call intelligent conversation ? Sounds like immature name calling to me ...

You've never in your life looked a man in the eye in person and told him his dog was junk ... and you sure wouldn't want to start with me .... especially since I love you man .

Posted by joseph mcdonald on 02-04-2009 04:15 PM:

Okay, here's a question. Why belong to a breed assc. then? If no one cares to preserve, while at the same time improve, a breeds, traits, why even mess with it? Why not petition UKC to revert back and keep all the seperate breeds as ENGLISH COONHOUND ? Essentially, thats what you guys are saying. Just think, we could all breed our walkers to redbones and vice versa. Throw color out the window. Throw individual breed traits out the door and concentrate on the worlds best coonhounds, no matter what.

DISCLAIMER NOTICE: By reading this post you agree to in no way become upset, offended or hostile without express written consent from person who made post. Furthermore we will not be held liable for misunderstandings, confusement, illiteracy, or any other incompentacies. Thank You.

Posted by rance56 on 02-04-2009 05:08 PM:

not asking if crossbreds make nice hounds, i think they and i might possibly make those type crosses in the future, my question is, should a dog know to be out of 2 different breeds be allowed to be registered as a pure breed with UKC

btw, if you think you can find waht you want in your breed, why not just change breeds?

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Posted by Jamie B on 02-04-2009 05:30 PM:

In the begging the walker dog was started by a stolen black&tan that was taking ,while he was smoking off game cross a public road. SO WHAT IS YOUR DOGS GRANDDADDY!

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Posted by amazeagle on 02-04-2009 06:01 PM:

I personally have never laid eyes on a "purebred" coonhound.

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 02-04-2009 06:02 PM:

Jamie, I'd possibly suggest doing more research on the subject. The walker and maupin families were breeding walker hounds that came all colors before maupin ever ended up with tenn. lead. And to this day, i own running walker hounds that are still black and tan in color.

Posted by glynnsdawgs63 on 02-04-2009 06:25 PM:

single reg.

I don't have a prolem with single reg if the dog is really a purebred grade.I would really like to see the UKC have a place for
crossbred hounds like the old ACHA's American Coonbred Hound
like the old days when I was a kid.Also the best ever coondog I ever owned was half Pointer birddog and half Bluetick,He looked Bluetick Should he have been single registered.(no I don't think so)

Glynn

Posted by Jamie B on 02-04-2009 06:49 PM:

November,1852,a black & tan hound was stolen out of a deer chase by a horse trader,taken to madison county, Kentucky sold to George Washington Maupin. There,asTENNESSEE LEAD, he became the foundation sire of all walker,trigg and goodman fox hounds

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Posted by joseph mcdonald on 02-04-2009 06:54 PM:

Jamie, i have the walker foxhound history book wrote by the walker family. Tenn. lead was used as ONE of the foundation sires not the only foundation sire. This is actually irrelevant to this thread sorry for any inconvienence.

Posted by rance56 on 02-04-2009 07:10 PM:

wow, i didnt realize i was asking for a history lesson. i guess some dont understand keeping the integrity of a breed and progress

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the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Posted by Justin Smith on 02-04-2009 07:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joseph mcdonald
Okay, here's a question. Why belong to a breed assc. then? If no one cares to preserve, while at the same time improve, a breeds, traits, why even mess with it? Why not petition UKC to revert back and keep all the seperate breeds as ENGLISH COONHOUND ? Essentially, thats what you guys are saying. Just think, we could all breed our walkers to redbones and vice versa. Throw color out the window. Throw individual breed traits out the door and concentrate on the worlds best coonhounds, no matter what.

DISCLAIMER NOTICE: By reading this post you agree to in no way become upset, offended or hostile without express written consent from person who made post. Furthermore we will not be held liable for misunderstandings, confusement, illiteracy, or any other incompentacies. Thank You.

You're still being dramatic ... you can infuse new blood into a breed and still keep it's identity and improve it .

The better question is ... how do you expect to improve a strain of dogs without adding anything new ? How can you breed the same dogs you have been and suddenly get something new or better ... just because you wish for it ?

Will your pups be born with a better nose than their parents just because of what .. chance ?

If you want a faster track dog than what you have .... you think you'll get it just because you raise a bunch of pups ?

No ... you find a dog that has what you want , and if you let strain or looks steer you away ... then you just took a back seat.

That's why Walkers dominate .. they don't have the hang-ups with strain names or colors .... we aint gotta even ponder that one , it's a reality.

Posted by Jamie B on 02-04-2009 07:32 PM:

SORRY FOR ADDING MY THOUGHTS TO THIS FORUM,LOL I WOULD NOT BREED ANY OF MY DOGS, TO SOMETHING THAT WOULD MESS UP THE B&T BREED! POSTED 4 A FRIEND! 10 MONTH OLD WALKER FEMALE,BOTH PARENTS ARE OUT OF TENN. LEAD! LOL! SHE HAS NO PAPPERS!FIRST 25 DOLLARS WILL BUY HER

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