UKC Forums - Question for Oakridge

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Posted by walker-fan on 01-24-2009 05:13 PM:

Question for Oakridge

what is the correct dosage for a 50 lb dog using the lb notches on the syringe.

for zimecterin gold (ivermectin 1.55%, praziquntel 7.75%) and for safeguard (fenbendazole 10%)

both of these are are horse wormer with weight notches on syringe.

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Posted by walker-fan on 01-24-2009 06:21 PM:

bbtt

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Posted by Curly Fry on 01-24-2009 06:40 PM:

My brother gave a dog a whole tube by accident once, he didn't eat for about a day but otherwise as far as i know , did no harm.

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Posted by Roger Kloepping on 01-24-2009 08:30 PM:

I use the safegaurd wormer febendazole. It list 250# incrinments so i just divided it by 5, about 1/8 inch on the ring hope this helps, havent killed one yet! LOL

Posted by Mike Donaldson on 01-24-2009 11:01 PM:

The recommended dosage for Safegaurd (fenbendazole) is 50mg per kg (2.2 lbs). This translates into 1100mg (1.1 grams) of fenbendazole for a 50 pound dog. A tube of Safegaurd horse paste contains 25 grams of wormer @ 10% concentration = 2.5 grams of fenbendazole per tube. Therefore, the proper dosage would be just shy of 1/2 the tube. Fenbendazole is much more effective when given 3 days in a row so it would take nearly 1 1/2 tubes to worm a 50# dog properly. I have included a link below that gives the proper dosage. Most folks have a hard time giving a 50# dog enough wormer for a 500 lb horse.

The most economical way to administer Safegaurd is the liquid goat wormer. You can worm nearly 4 50# dogs for 3 days in a row with a 120ml bottle that cost about $17.

This link is for Panacur, but it is still fenbendazole.... scroll down to where it says ingredients and it gives the dosage.
http://petnutritionproducts.com/int...kets-p-352.html

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-25-2009 12:19 PM:

Re: Question for Oakridge

quote:
Originally posted by walker-fan
what is the correct dosage for a 50 lb dog using the lb notches on the syringe.

for zimecterin gold (ivermectin 1.55%, praziquntel 7.75%) and for safeguard (fenbendazole 10%)

both of these are are horse wormer with weight notches on syringe.

Alright...here is the bottom line, without going into all of the numbers.

Don't give this to your dog! These tubes of wormer are dosed for horses and NOT for dogs. If the dosage for each of these medications were the same between horses and dogs, I would not have any problems giving it to dogs, but quite frankly...they are NOT the same.

Example: There is enough praziquantel in each tube to treat a 1200 pound horse. HOWEVER, you would have to give the entire tube to a dog that weighted 70.4 pounds. (if you want to check the math, there is a total of 240 mg praziquantel in each tube, and the correct dosage of praziquantel for dogs is 3.4 mg/pound)

On the other hand, the dosage for Ivermectin in dogs is vastly different than for horses as well. So in combination, there is really no "correct" dosage when these two drugs are combined for horses.

You would not want to give your dog that much Ivermectin in one dose, but it would take the whole tube to get the correct dose of praziquantel.

As MBD stated, buy the Safeguard goat wormer...(I get it in a 125 cc bottle for about $20.00) this should take care of round worms, hookworms, whip worms. (a 125 cc bottle will worm about 60 doses)

You can now buy praziquantel over the counter. D-worm tapeworm tabs has the active ingredient listed as praziquantel. You can buy these for about $15.00.( you only need to treat your dog once ever three months or so)

The dosage for ivermectin differs depending on it's use. There are some real dangers of toxicity with this drug, and while it's safe to use on dogs, I would not give large amounts to my dogs on a monthly basis. I use it ONLY for the treatment to prevent heart worms. I buy the 1% injectiable, give it orally at the recommended dosage. Total cost is about $20.00 a bottle. ( 100 CC bottle will do 200 dogs at 1/2 cc per month)

I know it sounds much cheaper to buy a $10.00 tube of stuff that has enough wormer in it for a 1200 pound horse....but in the long run, you end up underdosing with one ingredient, overdosing with another, and your dog still has the problem.

$50.00 out of pocket should give you enough of the three different treatments to keep your dog healthy for many months

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Posted by Ben Crocker on 01-25-2009 12:52 PM:

Re: Question for Oakridge

quote:
Originally posted by walker-fan
what is the correct dosage for a 50 lb dog using the lb notches on the syringe.

for zimecterin gold (ivermectin 1.55%, praziquntel 7.75%) and for safeguard (fenbendazole 10%)

both of these are are horse wormer with weight notches on syringe.

I've used zimecterin horse wormer for 15 years. I use about the size of a pencil eraser on each dog the first of every month. I also use Nemex once every 6 months to each dog. Never had a problem with any type of worms. The zimectrin works for a great heart worm preventive and is very cheap going this route. My Jake dog was started this way at 6 months old and is now coming 11 and looks and acts like a 3 year old. All the math means nothing if it works. To each his own!

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-25-2009 01:43 PM:

Re: Re: Question for Oakridge

quote:
Originally posted by Ben Crocker
I've used zimecterin horse wormer for 15 years. I use about the size of a pencil eraser on each dog the first of every month. I also use Nemex once every 6 months to each dog. Never had a problem with any type of worms. The zimectrin works for a great heart worm preventive and is very cheap going this route. My Jake dog was started this way at 6 months old and is now coming 11 and looks and acts like a 3 year old. All the math means nothing if it works. To each his own!

Ben,

Sure enough, the dosage of the size of a pencil eraser may have enough Ivermectin to keep your dog heartworm free. If you read my post, I said that there was way too much ivermectin in the tube to give to a dog....

The question was about zimecterin gold, and the purpose of buying that would be to treat tapeworms....and in order to treat the tapeworms effectively, you would have to give the whole tube, and in doing that, you would be overdosing the dog on ivermectin!

If your dogs don't have tapes, and/or fleas...your program is working with you...and I'd stick to it. But what works for you may not work for everyone else....

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Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Ben Crocker on 01-25-2009 01:50 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Question for Oakridge

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Ben,

Sure enough, the dosage of the size of a pencil eraser may have enough Ivermectin to keep your dog heartworm free. If you read my post, I said that there was way too much ivermectin in the tube to give to a dog....

The question was about zimecterin gold, and the purpose of buying that would be to treat tapeworms....and in order to treat the tapeworms effectively, you would have to give the whole tube, and in doing that, you would be overdosing the dog on ivermectin!

If your dogs don't have tapes, and/or fleas...your program is working with you...and I'd stick to it. But what works for you may not work for everyone else....

I agree and also didn't know he was treating for Tapes.

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Posted by Mike Donaldson on 01-25-2009 01:59 PM:

Re: Re: Question for Oakridge

quote:
Originally posted by Ben Crocker
I've used zimecterin horse wormer for 15 years. I use about the size of a pencil eraser on each dog the first of every month. I also use Nemex once every 6 months to each dog. Never had a problem with any type of worms. The zimectrin works for a great heart worm preventive and is very cheap going this route. My Jake dog was started this way at 6 months old and is now coming 11 and looks and acts like a 3 year old. All the math means nothing if it works. To each his own!

There is a difference between Zimectrin and Zimectrin Gold. ZG has praziquantel for tapeworms. As Oak Ridge says to get enough Prazi in the dog to do any good you would have to give them the 1/3 tube.\ which would put the ivermectin at an extreme over dose. Therefore, there is really no need to give them ZG. Z is a different story. You can dose the correct amount of it since it only contain one active ingredient, ivermectin.
One tube of ZG = 567 mg of praziquantel (see link below). The proper dosage for dogs is 3-3.5mg per pound (see second link below) that means a 50# dog would need 150 mg of praziquantel.
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/141-214s071304.pdf
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/FOI/664.htm
Most folks agree the heartworm preventative dosage of 1% ivermectin solution is 1/10 ml per 10 pounds of body weight. So for a 50# dog that would be .5 ml. Each ml contains 10mg of Ivermectin, therefore .5ml would = 5 mg of ivermectin. Each tube of ZG contains 113.8 mg of ivermectin (see first link posted). So if you give your dog the recommended dose of Praziquantel in the form of ZG you will be giving them over 30 mg of ivermectin which would be 6 times the recommended dose.

I'm not telling anyone how or how not to worm their dogs, I simply broke down the numbers based on recommended dosages.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-25-2009 02:12 PM:

Ben,

Since you mentioned it...I did some checking.

The zimecterin is a different (higher) percentage of ivermectin than the zimecterin gold.

The problem is the horse wormer tubes, the medication is provided by weight (grams). Since we don't all have gram scales laying around, it's tough to measure the dosage. We end up with "pencil eraser" sized doses...or "how many rings".

These tubes come in 2.5 Gram doses. Now that's the total weight of the contents of the tube, not the weight of the medication inside the tube.

Zimecterin paste is 1.87% active ingredient ivermectin, and the gold is 1.55%

If you squirted the contents of an entire tube of Zimecterin into 1000 CC of water...shook it up until you had a an even suspension, you would have 18.7 mg per cc of ivermectin out of that tube.

The recommended dosage of ivermectin for horses is .2mg/kg, and the recommended dosage for dog for heartworm control is .012/kg. If you mixed 1000cc of water in the tube, you would need just under 1/2 cc per month to treat your dog.

Your "pencil eraser" sized dose seems to be about the right amount!

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 01-25-2009 02:12 PM:

As of right now the very best worming Program "Cost Wise" is "Safeguard Goat Wormer" over 3 days. And the 1 week later I give a Sub. Injection of 1% Ivermectin very month.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-25-2009 02:18 PM:

Majestic,

You are very correct...IF you have a very good flea control program, and/or you don't have a problem with flea born tapeworms.

Safeguard (fenbendezole) is NOT EFFECTIVE against all four types of tapes in dogs.....it will only get one type of canine tapeworm, and that is the rabbit borne tapeworm.

If tapeworms are a problem, the most cost effective way of treating them is the D-Worm tabs that are just only recently available over the counter...for about $15.00 per treatment.

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UKC Cur Advocate
Home of Oak Ridge Kennels

Posted by Mike Donaldson on 01-25-2009 02:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Majestic Tree H
As of right now the very best worming Program "Cost Wise" is "Safeguard Goat Wormer" over 3 days. And the 1 week later I give a Sub. Injection of 1% Ivermectin very month.

You are correct. Up until a few months ago I spent my Saturdays working in the family animal health/feed store. I spent many hours on slow days running the numbers on every form and shape that fenbendazole (safeguard) was available, even the giant size tubes of cattle paste. The most economical came out to be goat wormer. The 125ml bottle is a good deal at about $17, but if you have a lot of dogs the 1000ml bottle was a better deal at $100. The reason I chose fenbendazole (safeguard and panacur) was the fact that it will kill more intestinal parasites than any other over the counter wormer (see link below, chart at very bottom of page)
http://www.peteducation.com/article...090&aid=769

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 01-25-2009 02:36 PM:

I am worming 18 hounds .. The smallest Pup is 55#s . So I squeak by with 3 - $17 bottles of Goat wormer and the 1% Ivermectin last about 6 months or so (Use some of it in the Ears cut with Glyciren and Iodine) "Very Good Ear Maintenance"

Posted by barryg35 on 04-08-2010 11:51 AM:

good info

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