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-- Does everybody understand the new rules for 2009?? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=237561)

Does everybody understand the new rules for 2009??

The new rules are now on the UKC main page and mostly look pretty straight foward to me. Nite Hunt rules are already complex and can get sometimes confusing , but these new rules seem reasonable.

Rule 3D... Now makes a dog responsible for strike points when shut out. Under the old system a dog could quit a track or the 8 catch him and still not get minused. Now he will get minused under the new rule.

Rule 4K.. Addresses accepting a tree call after the 5 has expired on a tree. Under the old rule a judge could refuse a call on the expired tree. With the new rule , tree calls will be accepted but the dog is minused unless he is on a separate tree..

Rule 11... Addresses re-casting dogs after scoreing a tree.. Under the old rule , no dogs could be re-cast if any dog is treed. The new rules allows the handler the option to re-cast as long as one dog is on trail , even if another dog is treed. If the handler opts not to re-cast , there is no second chance. The tree must be scored before the option becomes available again. Handlers will have their choice to cast or not , reguardless of what other handlers do as long as any dog is on trail....

Another change will be the MOH verses a Hunt director. Clubs will now have the option to use the old MOH system or a Hunt Director. The Hunt Director will not decide Questions from the Nite Hunts. He will assemble a panel to decide questions that may arise....

Are you CONFUSED now?? I hope not , but it is going to somewhat differant next year.....

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

Not fully understanding the 7 min. thing on tree can a handler squall if all dogs are not handled after 7 min? I judged a cast the other night a handler wanted to squall and a dog was still on a track. I told him no. on time out his spectater showed me somthing on back of card about a 7 min. rule that I didn't fully get. So I told them that untill I got the full meaning of this rule that I would scratch their dog if they used a squaller and all dogs were not handled. Was that the right thing to do or what is the meaning of this rule. Can't remeber the numberof the rule it's listed under general.

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Hacks Black and Tans
Sean Hacker
Mount Vernon, Ky
606-308-9489/606-308-1398

The 7 minute Squall rule was a new rule from last year. It simply allows squalling only after 7 minutes of shine time is gone. You cannot squall in the first 7 minutes if another dog is out. The old rule didnt allow any squalling at any time if other dogs were out.

Hope that helps...

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

What did you call time out for?

I say we just leave the dogs at home and have hunts to see who the best handlers are!

Cmon guys...an option to turn your dog loose when a dog is treed and another is on trail? An option? Wow! Does the dog get any input in this option, does it matter how bad he wants to be turned loose, or if hes tired maybe he will want to sit this one out? Or maybe he's in the lead and the handler doesnt want to take the chance of him screwin up. How is this option gonna be handled in a bang bang cast when every second counts? Will we all stand there and wait for Slick to decide if he wants to turn his dog loose? Figure out how to measure the dog, not the handler.

The rule about declaring a dog treed when it is not obvious that he is split is confusing too. What happens when he trees on a closed tree and there is no coon found, he gets minused and the other dog gets circled? Once again this will just make it wide open for slick handling.

I say you judge the dog according to what he does. Then, design the rest of the rules so they will take care of those situations.

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918-352-8900

all hunt changes i like, dont know about water races. i know formal complaint $20. goes to youth but $20. for a question does this go to host club?

Hey Mark, does there have to be a dog on trail to turn loose or do you just walk a minute and turn loose like in AKC? I thought that rule was going to be like the AKC rule. I guess I should just go read them instead of asking huh!!!haha.

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Paul Langdon
Hornersville, MO (870-740-6484)

"Little River Black andTans
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Called time out after all dogs were handled, later on in the cast to save on hunt time. To get back to the truck and move to a diffrent location.

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Hacks Black and Tans
Sean Hacker
Mount Vernon, Ky
606-308-9489/606-308-1398

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg Goodin
I say we just leave the dogs at home and have hunts to see who the best handlers are!

Cmon guys...an option to turn your dog loose when a dog is treed and another is on trail? An option? Wow! Does the dog get any input in this option, ? Will we all stand there and wait for Slick to decide if he wants to turn his dog loose? Figure out how to measure the dog, not the handler.
.

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Langdon
Hey Mark, does there have to be a dog on trail to turn loose or do you just walk a minute and turn loose like in AKC? I thought that rule was going to be like the AKC rule. I guess I should just go read them instead of asking huh!!!haha.

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

longshot, you have a good point. I like the rule, just not the option part, i think itd be easier if it was set one way or the other.
After reading whats on the UKC site, i understand y they are doing it, its good in the way they say it. like you say though who knows

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918-352-8900

4k

on this rule if treed after the five has closed and the tree is circled does the dog that came in after five still recieve minus

Yes. You aren't understanding this one at all.

4 (k) covers the situation where you treed your dog after the 5 was up and that tree was closed. You cannot tree a dog at a closed tree. You never could. You can't now. So if you say tree Spot in the same area with a closed tree, where are you treeing Spot? You cannot be treeing him on that closed tree so you can only be treeing him on a different tree, a SPLIT TREE. So Spot goes on the card as split treed for 125 tree points. Now you go in to score the other dogs tree that was closed when you tree Spot and low and behold, Spot is on that closed tree with the other dog. Guess what, he was prolly there with that dog all along but it don't matter cause you split treed Spot and now he must take 125 minus for leaving his split tree and covering the closed tree. There will be no argueing that the other dog pulled to Spot because 4(k) states that Spot is the one that gets minused. And if that closed tree is plussed Spot is also gonna get minused his strike points foe covering a closed tree with a coon seen.

The smart play in this situation is to not tree Spot at all. Go in and score the other dog and if Spot is in fact split treed, TREE HIM NOW! He goes in for 125 tree points and after you score the first tree you can go over and score Spots split tree.
See, it isn't just the dogs. It's a good dog AND a good handler. There is nothing wrong with smart handling.

Hmmm

If I get the rules right (which I sometimes don't ) It looks like the rule 11 option will be determined a great deal by the type of dog that you are hunting .

If you are hunting a packing type of hound or a me too dog and you opt to turn loose 3d and 4k could kill you.

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Lets go ...she aint goin nowhere
TEAM GUTPILE Coming Soon !

How is that Jeff? If you turn into a treed dog, your dog cannot get minused strike points for covering that dog after the 5 is up because your dog is shutout on strike. If your dog covers before the 5 is up, your dog can get a peice of the treed dogs points. Or your dog can go tree a coon of it's own. There is nothing to lose by turning loose and lot to gain.

I thought

I thought 3d would make the dog responsible for his strike points in situations where in the past a line would have been drawn under them and then deleted.

__________________
Lets go ...she aint goin nowhere
TEAM GUTPILE Coming Soon !

3(d) makes shut out strike points scoreable if the dog isn't treed on the tree that it was shutout on. That is the only thing new about 3(d).

my bad Jim

I was reading more into 3d than it says /LOL!!

still reading it /LOL!!

__________________
Lets go ...she aint goin nowhere
TEAM GUTPILE Coming Soon !

Well atleast you are reading them Jeff!

Next January there will be three kinds of arguments.
Those who don't know about the new rules.
Those who know but misunderstand the new rules.
Those who know and understand the new rules but can't convince anyone else.

Hunt Director

I don't believe that is going to work at some hunts because they can't make a decision on any question that comes in until people get back for him to form a panel. Example: Cast comes back with a question about a dog being scratched 30 minutes into the hunt. Even with a 3 to 1 cast vote that the dog should be scratched, a Hunt Director can't make the final decision and go with the cast vote so they can finish their hunt until a panel is formed. Now with a 2a.m. deadline, not enough qualified to be on a panel until 1a.m. come back to make the decision. Unless the deadline is extended or everyone just quits, there is no way their hunt can gets finished to make the original deadline. My idea of the Master of Hounds sitting at a club house to make a decision, so the cast can get back to the woods. Now a Hunt Director won't be able to do that. Just my opinion, but I've been playing this game since 1970 and I want the decision to be made as soon as I get back to the clubhouse, so we can go finish a cast, not an hour or two later. I also dis-agree with the turn loose rule, but that's a whole 'new can of worms' and will cause problems, in my opinion. Take care, Ron.

Up at one of our local clubs a few weeks back I walked in about an hour after the casts left the grounds and the MOH was in there chatting with three women that had been working the kitchen. So right there you have your panel.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Up at one of our local clubs a few weeks back I walked in about an hour after the casts left the grounds and the MOH was in there chatting with three women that had been working the kitchen. So right there you have your panel.

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its official... i am now TOTALLY CONFUSED with these new rules that will be into play... i like AKC's strike system with the 6 min thing but that is JMO

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Cedarville, WV
home phone:304-462-7054
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dixie_coonhunter_911@yahoo.com
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6 minute thing??????

Hey JiM

I said "qualified" people to be on the panel. I don't consider the gals in the kitchen as being able to know the rules and making a decision on a cast question. Take care, Ron.