UKC Forums - breakdown the different bluetick lines/studdogs

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Posted by rance56 on 08-12-2003 09:12 PM:

breakdown the different bluetick lines/studdogs

basically the info im trying to find out is, what is each line/studdog's strengths and areas it could use improvement on and what outcross do you think would be ideal.

ex.

XYZ bloodline or studdog-start early, cold nosed, lots of tree in them.

dont move a track real quick and woudl out cross them with RST to get a faster dog.

well hope yall get the idea,

the lines i was thinking of were utchman, rambo, hammer, jet spanky, droop,

some studdogs jammer, river, coonbuster and basically any of the big names.

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Posted by John Carroll on 08-12-2003 11:43 PM:

I know I'm going to get in trouble for trying to half-way answer this one...but here goes nothin'.

I have found Uchtman dogs to be easy to train, well balanced dogs with consistently good mouths. They generally aren't trashy. I think of them as the ultimate pleasure dogs that are still snappy enough to be competitive. I find a higher percentage of this bloodline make coon dogs than anything else I've tried.

I haven't hunted with a lot of Hammer dogs, but I find their strengths to be that they are powerhouse tree dogs and are sharp about treeing layup coons moreso than the average dog from my favorite line. They tend to be more hyper, trashier, and you get some poor mouths, on the negative side.

The Rambo dogs are hard going dogs with a lot of drive and track speed. The ones I have known tended to be a little trashier than some, but that goes along with the tremendous drive. They are also great tree dogs that will stay hooked when things get rough. The Uchtman dogs, on the other hand, at least the ones I've hunted, tend not to stay hooked too good with rough dogs. The Rambo dogs are similar in style to a lot of Walker dogs, but more accurate.

The Spanky dogs are similar in their traits to the Hammer dogs, I think, and while the Jet dogs come from Hammer, I think Ed Mead has been a little more selective in his crosses than Dave Dean.

Disclaimer: This has been an OPINION. And I am admittedly biased.

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Posted by pete on 08-13-2003 12:50 AM:

john could you go thru the walkers like that ..... ???? .... pete

Posted by John Vaught on 08-13-2003 01:24 AM:

Agree

John that is a true reply, but I have one question. Rambo Dogs ??? Are they mostly not Uchtman Bred, and were do they get the go in them, and the willingness to stay treed with a rough dog, and the Uchtman line won't stay hooked with a rough hound.

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Posted by DAN CAHOY on 08-13-2003 01:40 AM:

I AGREE AS WELL

ESPECIALLY WITH THE COMMENT THAT THE JET DOGS AND ED MEAD WHERE MORE SELECTIVE IN THE CROSSES THAT WERE MADE MORE SO THAN DAVE AND THE HAMMER DOGS....YES JET COMES FROM HAMMER BUT THE JET DOGS HAVE ADVANCED MORE FROM MORE SELECTIVE BREEDIN RATHER THAN HAVIN ENUFF PUPS TO SUPPLY THE DEMAND...........
DAN CAHOY.

AND DONT GET ME WRONG THERE HAS BEEN SOME TOP HAMMER DOGS BUT JUST NOT AT THE SAME PERCENTAGE AS THE JET DOGS

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Posted by John Vaught on 08-13-2003 01:50 AM:

Ed Meade

Ed no doubt has done a great job with his breeding program, and the results show what great planning he has done to keep up with todays night hunt hounds of all breeds. He has the knowledge of how to breed to get what he wants, and to produce a dog for the nite hunts.........

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Posted by John Carroll on 08-13-2003 02:25 AM:

Re: Agree

quote:
Originally posted by John Vaught
John that is a true reply, but I have one question. Rambo Dogs ??? Are they mostly not Uchtman Bred, and were do they get the go in them, and the willingness to stay treed with a rough dog, and the Uchtman line won't stay hooked with a rough hound.

John, the Rambo dogs are descendants of Platner's Blue Mash, a littermate to Ranger IV. Most people think Hawk first of all when they hear Uchtman. The Ranger dogs have a lot of go in them.

I think the old Sally female that was the mother of the original Rambo must have had a profound influence on this line. A guy I know had a littermate to old Rambo, and he said he was incredibly fast on track, but was a little on the trashy side. In fact, he says he ran a fox down and caught him on the ground one night.

The old Rambo dog was a prepotent sire, as was Rambo II. I never hunted with old Jacopian's Blue Sally, but I would venture to guess that some of the Rambo traits that aren't typical Uchtman came from her.

Of course, I think a stud dog's mother might just be the most important dog on his pedigree.

That is my take on the differences and where they come from.

Although really, some of the Ranger bred dogs have all the go anyone could ever want, as do the Albert dogs. But Albert could be moved off a tree by a rough dog, and a lot of his pups are the same way.

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Posted by John Carroll on 08-13-2003 02:37 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pete
john could you go thru the walkers like that ..... ???? .... pete

Pete, you really do want a guy to go where angels fear to tread.

Seriously, if I were hunting walker dogs, I would want Finley River stock. I liked the Crowding Billy blood too, but I doubt if there is much of that around anymore.

I'm not a fan of House bred dogs, at least after Clint. (Hint hint...I don't care for Lipper dogs as a rule.)

I've hunted with a couple of Sackett Jr. dogs I was impressed by.

Another dog that produced some of the kind of dogs I like was Yadkin Tar Rattle Shaker. Those dogs had good mouths and good noses, and moved their tracks.

The reason I'm not fond of the more recent House dogs is that I used to hunt a lot with a buddy of Joe House's when I was a kid. He had dogs out of Clint, Lipper, Lawyer, etc. Several were titled dogs. Most of them were trashy, wild, looked great on a running coon but would skip out and hunt for another track if they had to work much on a coon. They blew through the country opening here and there looking for something red hot to slam dunk.

They were loud and had a lot of go, but not my kind of dogs. I didn't like their disposition either.

Lipper produced some great hounds, but mainly when crossed on something a little more cold-blooded, in my opinion. If you got one out of Lipper that had that go and track speed coupled with a brain that came from somewhere else, you had a ringer.

Again, just my opinions, and I am no exper on anything, much less Walkers.

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Posted by choppin axe on 08-13-2003 03:54 AM:

Rance, you are lucky as i am. in my opinion (not to get no one upset). the two best stud dogs are right here around you. pm me and we will talk. or give me a call 770-387-2720. hey you can go hunting with these two and see what they do..gary woods

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Posted by pete on 08-13-2003 07:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by John Carroll
Pete, you really do want a guy to go where angels fear to tread.

.

thanks john i knew you could do it john...its addicting living on the edge like that . ive hunted with a few out of lipper . some were junk some great.. most every dog i have now has a ton of lipper breeding . i like lipper x tabitha or lipper x cedar hill sass. i just run bear , a lot of this stuff is so far down from lipper how do i know where the nose comes from .just know its there. anyways i am interested in walkers with lots of mouth,nose and track speed. pete

Posted by Marty Waddell on 08-13-2003 01:33 PM:

HEY JOHN

you gotta go bring up the fox incident dont you.LAUGHS. The dogs name was Bull...he was hand picked out of the litter that produced rambo. Larry Platner gave me this pup as his stud fee pick. I hunted with the sally dog alot and she was just a good steady coondog. I never got to see how she would act around a rough dog but the way she treed leads Me to believe she would stay. I would have bought her when she was sold if I had had the money. Mash was not one that would leave a tree. Never knew him to start trouble but I did see him stay treed with some very rough stuff. Mash could tree a lay up or work out an old rough track as easily as he put the treee on a good running track. He had a good mouth and a great locate. He would stay treed til you got there and most generaly he didnt care what else was going on. His one fault (passed down to the daughter I own) was he chewed. If you left him there a long time most likely the tree would be barkless for several feet off the ground.

Posted by Wayne Valentino on 08-13-2003 02:03 PM:

GOOD JOB JOHN CARROLL

Well after reading these posts, I would have to concer with John on his comments on the Ranger line, Hammer and Jet lines. Can only comment on what I've seen with these weak old eyes of mine LOL....

Now I'll put in my 2 cents on blood you seldom see anymore.. Bragg/Vaughn... Pleasure style hunting/ medium to close.. big mouthed... good track speed, open according to track.. I've seen some Bragg blood that was slower on track but that has been bred away from...so you don't see it much anymore, if at all... Tree dogs that stay... At times you will get pups that start later than other more popular lines today but not excessive... Do OK in competition hunts but are known for being tree checkers before the sit down to stay so will get beat out on tree points.. Great for when the leaves are off in Competition though... Biggest plus to me is they are easy to trash break and many will only run on what you train them on and never trash,, hard to believe but true....

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Posted by John Carroll on 08-13-2003 02:11 PM:

Marty, I didn't tell who you were,LOL.

I don't like my dogs to run fast game, but if they are going to run, I want them to try to catch it. I can't stand one boo-hooing around after trash.

Pete, you mentioned the cross of Lipper x Tabitha...I think her and her sister Mandy produced the best pups out of Lipper. Lipper sure added some worthwhile qualities to the Walker breed, but I like him better a ways back in the pedigree. A lot of the stuff I hunted with was directly out of him, and other House bred females. Not enough nose and not enough brains for me.

But a little Lipper bred into a line with nose and brains will sure turbo-charge them.

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Posted by rance56 on 08-13-2003 02:25 PM:

thanks for the replies

i like gathering as much info on a subject as possible, espeically since im new to all this.

gary, pretty soon i hope we will have 3 dual grand blueticks in our area. are you going to lagrange friday? the ole female caught one on the ground last night, hoepefully it did her a little good.

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Posted by Blue Ice on 08-13-2003 03:05 PM:

I will agree with the Utchman dogs not staying around for trouble. My dog will leave the scene if trouble starts. He is a good dog other than that.

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Posted by John Carroll on 08-13-2003 03:09 PM:

Actually, since I am not a competition hunter really, I kind of like the not staying around for trouble. I know some dogs can back up and keep treeing, and that is the best thing they can do.

But as for me, and this is just me, and I know many who don't feel this way, I'd rather my dog leave than fight.

Too many dogs start out just defending themselves, and move on up the ladder of aggression later. I don't want my hound in a dog fght.

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Posted by Wayne Valentino on 08-13-2003 03:47 PM:

AMEN JOHN

Moving up the aggression ladder... Seen many a fine hound ruined by it..........

Posted by Marty Waddell on 08-13-2003 04:38 PM:

John

funny thing is he never did it again and never ran a deer. Other than that one night he was a very trash free hound. Also the female I am hunting now has never touched anything fast and has only treed one possum that I know of.

Posted by bluetickin on 08-13-2003 05:16 PM:

Rambo

Hunted with alot of Rambo dogs and they like it fast fast fast.You just got to breakum.

Posted by John Carroll on 08-13-2003 07:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Marty Waddell
John

funny thing is he never did it again and never ran a deer. Other than that one night he was a very trash free hound. Also the female I am hunting now has never touched anything fast and has only treed one possum that I know of.

I like them naturally trash-free. Some guys don't believe it, but this is a trait that breeds on.

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Posted by choppin axe on 08-13-2003 11:04 PM:

Rance, thanks for hopeing that we will have three dual grands soon. i hope so too. axe just turned 16 months old and he is cranking it up a notch or two. he only likes just a little bit to be dual grand. then i will start to stud him out. i will be going to jasper its a lot closer for me. gary woods

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Posted by blacksheep on 08-14-2003 01:34 AM:

well, well, well, this is surely a deep subject!!!!!! I like about 50% of the blueticks I have been with and they were from all types of bloodlines. As far as walcurs go, I have hunted with about 20 of them some ( more than one or two hunts) and I have liked about 2 of them. The rest were MEAN, TRASHY, MEAN, TRASHY, SLICK TREEING, OH AND DID I MENTION MEAN AND TRASHY, SLICK TREEING, RABBIT RUNNING, DEER CHASING, FOX RUNNING, TREE JACKING, NO NOSE, NO TRACK SENSE, TREE 200 BARKS A MINUTE UP A STOP SIGN AND GUARD IT LIKE FORT KNOX AND LEAVE 30 FOOT OFF JUST TO WHUP THE STEW OUT OF ANOTHER DOG FOR COMING AROUND. The main walcur I like was straight out of HOUSES LIPPER AND MCKISSICK CREEK TABITHA. The other good one was a direct son of this dog and a lipper bred female. The rest were all pretty similar............ worthless as a screendoor on a submarine.

Posted by on 08-14-2003 02:28 AM:

I have to agree

with Mr. Carroll....I would rather a dog leave a tree than fight, my male will back off tree and keep treein , but my female will leave.....I am mainly a pleasure hunter, hit a comp once in a while, but I would rather have a hickey than a scratch....jmo...

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