UKC Forums - handlers

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Posted by bruce huffman on 10-04-2008 07:16 PM:

handlers

I was reading a post last night and people was discussing the differance between a slick handler,a good handler, and a cheat.Will its like this a good handler is slick and a slick handler is good.The handler has a coon dog number one, he then knows the rules, he then knows how and when to apply the rules given what his dog is telling him and last he is not affraid to apply the rules.That inturn makes him a winner and that makes him a cheat.
So inturn when these people who get beat by these handlers they tell every body how they got taken advantage of.When inturn they didn't there just affraid to say I GOT BEAT.So that gives the handler a bad name and everybody inturn calls ukc to complain and thats whats realy wrong with the hunts today.

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Posted by elvis on 10-04-2008 10:39 PM:

I believe the most important thing i have noticed about the good handlers is they know when to keep their mouth shut.
Many many times the "gunners" will beat themselves if you just sit back and make sure you dont make any bad calls with a lesser dog.

knowing your dog and knowing the rules are extremely important, but the failure of a handler to be able to keep his trap shut when he should have,has beat him many times more than a better dog,slick handler or a cheat ever will.

Posted by MikeO on 10-05-2008 01:20 AM:

Re: handlers

quote:
Originally posted by bruce huffman
I was reading a post last night and people was discussing the differance between a slick handler,a good handler, and a cheat.Will its like this a good handler is slick and a slick handler is good.The handler has a coon dog number one, he then knows the rules, he then knows how and when to apply the rules given what his dog is telling him and last he is not affraid to apply the rules.That inturn makes him a winner and that makes him a cheat.
So inturn when these people who get beat by these handlers they tell every body how they got taken advantage of.When inturn they didn't there just affraid to say I GOT BEAT.So that gives the handler a bad name and everybody inturn calls ukc to complain and thats whats realy wrong with the hunts today.

well that's one point of view its kinda distorted but to each his own.

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Posted by RED REBELS on 10-05-2008 01:48 AM:

i agree w/ this post!! but i got beat, A LOT!! lol

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Posted by MikeO on 10-05-2008 01:54 AM:

losing is just part of it.

Posted by smokey7 on 10-05-2008 01:57 AM:

Re: handlers

quote:
Originally posted by bruce huffman
I was reading a post last night and people was discussing the differance between a slick handler,a good handler, and a cheat.Will its like this a good handler is slick and a slick handler is good.The handler has a coon dog number one, he then knows the rules, he then knows how and when to apply the rules given what his dog is telling him and last he is not affraid to apply the rules.That inturn makes him a winner and that makes him a cheat.
So inturn when these people who get beat by these handlers they tell every body how they got taken advantage of.When inturn they didn't there just affraid to say I GOT BEAT.So that gives the handler a bad name and everybody inturn calls ukc to complain and thats whats realy wrong with the hunts today.

Good grief. I'll just say this, I disagree with everything you just said.

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Posted by RED REBELS on 10-05-2008 01:58 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeO
losing is just part of it.

i've totally noticed lol

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Posted by BOGUE SWAMP on 10-05-2008 04:35 AM:

if you let a handler beat you by cheating who do you need to blame. KNOW THE RULES The only way to cheat is to break the rules otherwise it is being a GOOD (not slick) handler.Most of all remember it is a game the best dog does not always win.If they did everyone would have grand nite dogs.

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Posted by MikeO on 10-05-2008 09:06 AM:

ok now what do you do if you drive a hundred miles to hunt then you draw a 3 dog cast just so happens the 2 guys you draw hunt together and they're buddies... then at the end of the hunt your dog splits and his tree gives you the win BUT the other 2 guys all the sudden get cloudy vision and cant see your coon?????

Posted by gfults on 10-05-2008 12:51 PM:

The better handlers dont always have the best dogs. Alot of times they dont even have good dogs. I know handlers that absolutely think they have to pitch a dog. They have to have a babbler and a packing me tooing piece of junk to win, and they will!! Ive heard so many tales about folks getting "CHEATED" on a cast, and when you ask them why they didnt question a call, they just say Well, it just wasnt worth it. If its not then shut up and quit bitching!

Posted by gfults on 10-05-2008 12:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeO
ok now what do you do if you drive a hundred miles to hunt then you draw a 3 dog cast just so happens the 2 guys you draw hunt together and they're buddies... then at the end of the hunt your dog splits and his tree gives you the win BUT the other 2 guys all the sudden get cloudy vision and cant see your coon?????

U stick it in the back of ur mind and remember their names and faces. If u hunt enuf hunts, u will draw them again!!!

Posted by Ron Brickles on 10-05-2008 01:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeO
ok now what do you do if you drive a hundred miles to hunt then you draw a 3 dog cast just so happens the 2 guys you draw hunt together and they're buddies... then at the end of the hunt your dog splits and his tree gives you the win BUT the other 2 guys all the sudden get cloudy vision and cant see your coon?????

HAS HAPPENED TO ME BEFORE,BUT I GET TO HUNT A LOT OF THE LOCAL LEVEL HUNT AND GOT TO RETURN THE FAVOR

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Posted by corky crowder on 10-05-2008 02:43 PM:

slick handlers are whats wrong with nite hunts now the purpose of nite hunt was to see whos dog was best not who is the slickest handler. there are too many rules that can be bent to apoint but you with breaking

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Posted by m4rcut on 10-05-2008 02:50 PM:

if it was only to see which dog was the best . . . . .then whats the point in having handlers? Handlers are half of the effort and if they don't try thier best to help the dogs out (not by cheating but following the rules) then they suck and deserve to lose

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Posted by burdette on 10-05-2008 02:56 PM:

ive pulled some good cast where everyone got along. put ive pulled WAY more bad cast (slick handler's) then good cast. anyone who gets on here defending slick handlers are usually a slick handler. thats bull when someone has to strike or tree their dog on your dogs bark. its bull when some guys will bust butt into the tree when you get hung up in briars or a creek and minus your dog for being odd the tree or fighting when they never stopped treeing. its bull when the next day you hear your cast winner won with 400 pts instead of the 125 pts he had when you signed the card. THE WAY I SEE IT IF THEIR DOG IS THAT BIG OF A PIECE OF CRAP THAT THEY HAVE TO CHEAT THEN STAY HOME.

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Posted by m4rcut on 10-05-2008 03:00 PM:

i agree with that but there is a difference in being a slick handler and being a cheat. . . . . . . . . . . Cheating is cheating. . . . . .being slick is knowing your dog, having a dog that can get the job done, and using the rules to your advantage.

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'09 Winter Classic overall hunt winner
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Posted by bruce huffman on 10-05-2008 03:21 PM:

Its like this the rules are on the card and like every game you must know the rules.So the same here if you let someone bend the rule or break the rule it is your own falt for not knowing the rules yourself.As far as breaking a rule and cheating there are options for those who think this is happing.
1.question it
2.master of hounds
3.formall complaint
If any one dosent follow these rules and lets a person break the rulesand still complains isnt it his fault.And further I have been acussed of everything but never acussed of the truth I have coon dogs not show dogs and if you dont beleave that call me and we will hunt "CC" 540-966-2165

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Posted by Ray Walburn on 10-05-2008 04:09 PM:

JMO

I belive there are to many out there that read the rules differnet than the next person. When I am judgeing If I dont see eyes You dont get a score. No talking me into a knot in a tree etc. Sometimes I am to honest but it funny how everybody is fine and buddy buddy till the first strike ,or your down to the last minute and need a first tree to break the tie or win the cast then You will scratch any dog in the way . This is just my opioin ,And why I prefur to hunt with my dogs and me Thanks for reading

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Posted by m4rcut on 10-05-2008 04:13 PM:

so if you see a coons body in the tree you don't plus it????? ive been cheated by people just like that

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Posted by holywodsfirebal on 10-05-2008 04:42 PM:

cheated

what about the slick master of hounds???????????
they don't have a coondog they don't even know what a coondog is. (DP) so when you come with a question. It's you or his buddy.
hmmmmm. wonder who he is going to pick. because rules don't apply to them. Ol thats rite FORMAL CAMPLAINT/////////
WAIT A MIN I AM SORRY, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT SLICK HANDLERS

Posted by James200 on 10-05-2008 06:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeO
ok now what do you do if you drive a hundred miles to hunt then you draw a 3 dog cast just so happens the 2 guys you draw hunt together and they're buddies... then at the end of the hunt your dog splits and his tree gives you the win BUT the other 2 guys all the sudden get cloudy vision and cant see your coon?????

Mike,your senario does happen from time to time.Not much a guy can do about it.

A while back we drove 3 1/2 hours to a added money pkc hunt in Madisonville Texas. Drew out on a 3 dog cast....one of the top handlers in the nation and a buddy of his...our hound was winning the cast by 50 with time running out...the other 2 hounds get treed while our dog is going on with the track...time comes to go to the dogs treed....the bigtime/paid handler and buddy snap their hounds....paid handler says"plussem up, there he is!!" w/o even shining the tree...lol....naturally his buddy agrees....dogs recast to our hound....time in hunt runs out...paid/handler wins!....so yes.....CHEATING does happen and sometimes there is nothing that can be done about it with the way the rules are.

I wish the kc's would allow a fella to use a video/audio recorder on cast if any/all cast members choose to....it might remove a lot of the guess work for m.o.h. and panels.

Posted by MikeO on 10-05-2008 08:06 PM:

yep just take your whoopin and move on.

Posted by corky crowder on 10-05-2008 09:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by m4rcut
if it was only to see which dog was the best . . . . .then whats the point in having handlers? Handlers are half of the effort and if they don't try thier best to help the dogs out (not by cheating but following the rules) then they suck and deserve to lose

you have the handlers to call the dogs not to work the rules and bend them to sute thier need if everyone would call thier dog for what it is doing then take circle plus or minus ,dont go blind if you you dont have friststrike and frist tree

Posted by Cody Carroll on 10-05-2008 09:56 PM:

the way i look at it if you dont have the best dog but you know the rules and beat them with the rules then its the other handlers fault for not knowing the rules.

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Posted by m4rcut on 10-05-2008 10:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by corky crowder
you have the handlers to call the dogs not to work the rules and bend them to sute thier need if everyone would call thier dog for what it is doing then take circle plus or minus ,dont go blind if you you dont have friststrike and frist tree

so pretty much if you know your dog isn't the best dog at that hunt you shouldn't hunt???? no the handler makes up half of the work

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