UKC Forums - Permission to retrieve

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-- Permission to retrieve (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=22975)

Posted by tricoloredjoe on 06-10-2004 11:53 PM:

Permission to retrieve

Listen to this one. Go to a farm that buts up to a farm i have permission to hunt on, to make sure I could get the dogs if they crossed over. Most folks I have talked to have no problem but they let me know if they dont want me to hunt, which is fine. O yeah this guy was differant, goes off on me saying he will shoot the dogs and the way he was talking I wouldn't be above the dogs if you know what i mean. Question I have for all you is when you guys get one of these wonderful people how do you deal with them besides giving him the old right cross because the idea did cross my mind. And one more thing did Indiania pass the right to retrieve law???

Posted by Lee Stocking on 06-11-2004 01:26 AM:

Offer to help the man out somehow. Earn his trust. Ifn he dont buddy up to you and he shoots one of your dogs shoot back lol. Not sure about the right to retrieve law. Dont you just love people that have no kindness to them.

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Posted by netexas on 06-11-2004 02:10 AM:

We have problems with some of the local mutts killing our high $$ game chickens that can cost as much as a thousand a trio, and are money winners. Sometimes they get in our trash and strow it all out in the yard. But, as long as they arent in the chicken yard or tearing up trash, I dont shoot em; I have shot dozens of them though. I wouldnt shoot anyones coon dog, though. I might spank him a little. As long as the dog isnt destroying his property or running deer on his land, he shouldnt have a problem. It is his property though, and we all know how people dont want you "hunting" on their land even if you try and convince them you are just goin to get your coon dog. He must be some animal rights activist or something ....

Posted by warrior on 06-11-2004 03:34 AM:

He might be sick and tired

I'm not saying you or any one you know has done this but here are some of the problems we've had. Four wheelers and trucks driven through new planted pine trees, D5 dozer shot up, pallet of drill pipe shot up, renters growing pot, chicken killing dogs, poachers, timber stolen, fires, livestock chased, wild dogs. these are just some of the problems my father and I have had over the years. Maybe this fellow is just sick and tired and don't know you from Adam's housecat. Just do your best to be a good neighbor and show that you can be trusted to respect his wishes, he might come around. All of my neighbors that I trust have absolute permission to come and go as they please to retrieve dogs,game, etc.. One neighbor has permission to disregard our common line and hunt as he sees fit, if the better site is on our side go for it, I also hunt his land. I have other neighbors I don't trust and won't allow them on my place, one I threatened to shoot. This is why I urge all hunters and outdoorsmen to be good neighbors, someone else's bad actions unfortunately reflect on us. If need be weed out the bad apples till they straighten up.

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Posted by nitechamp bud on 06-11-2004 03:56 AM:

what to do? apologize for wasting his time. agree with what ever he says, even if he calls you a rotten, filthy sob. just let on that what ever he say he is right. if you see him broke down beside the road help him out. give him a ride. don't allow him to pay you though. over time he will begin to think you are a fine humanbeing that hangs on his every word and looks up to him and you have seen the error of your ways. then one night when it's cloudy with no moon...............................................................................................and then hunt the area all you want.

quit looking so serious i'm only joking.

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Posted by Bluedogman on 06-11-2004 11:50 AM:

LOL

I joke that way too

Posted by Hoosier on 06-11-2004 01:51 PM:

Indiana's Right to Retrieve Law

In Indiana you do NOT have the right to retrieve. I discussed this with our C.O. during the youth hunter education course I went through with my son. IF your hound goes on posted ground you can go ask for permission and if he refuses you can call the C.O. and he can come out and try to talk to them and let you get your hound...BUT in the end, IF the landowner says "NO WAY", you have to wait for your dog to come out. Our C.O. did say that he had personally never had a landowner that had refused to let a man get his dog AFTER he was involved.

I think in alot of cases it's how you present yourself to the landowner that determines if he will let you hunt or not. I try to represent myself as a knowledgeable hunter who has the following:
1. Respect for him and his property.
2. Respect for the sport I represent.
3. Appreciation for being given permission that I won't abuse.
4. Assurance that if the woods is close to his house, that I won't be in there past normal bed time.
5. Assurance that if given permission that I won't be in there EVERY NIGHT hunting. Maybe 1-2 times a month.

IF he says no, I shake his hand, tell him that's no big deal and that there are many other places to hunt.

Courtesy and professionalism will open many doors for you !

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Posted by muleman on 06-11-2004 03:58 PM:

What they do around here is wait till it gets late and turn loose anywhere they see fit. Some of the places I hunt I got to call before I go, well to me that is know problem, but when I get there, there is somebody else there all ready, and a lot of the time I know who it is. Some of the land owner told me If I see anybody else in there hunting to call them and let them know, but if you personally know them that makes it kind of hard to do. One time I was hunting on one farm and lost my dogs so the next morning I got a phone call from the neighboring farm, he wanted to know if I was missing two dogs, when I told him I was he then proceeded to tell me they was chasing his hogs, I told him point blank to shoot both of them, and I was on my way over to pick up the dead dogs. Well when I got there he had them tied to his mailbox. After talking to him he said he thought I was somebody else that hunts on him even though he told him several times not to. I cant really blame some of the land owners for not letting people hunt on them, because of what some people around here do. Theres 3-4 people around here that has know respect for other people. Makes it kind of hard for the rest of us.

Posted by tricoloredjoe on 06-12-2004 04:14 AM:

Hoosier I see your point and believe me I tried. I had the plat book for our county (guy didn't even know what one was) and permission slips that state the landowner is not responible for any loss of my property or even life and i was responsible for anything that may happen while I was on the land. I give respect to every one but, when someone doesn't show it to me back thats when I get a little unhappy to put it mildly. Maybe he firgured since I looked so young (only 20) I was just another punk. O well I guess there are always more places to hunt.

Posted by patches on 06-12-2004 11:56 AM:

i have to agree with warrior. i used to let hunters on my land but last yar i had two dogs shot in my pasture and my arabian was shot while in the barn. the guy you were talking to may have had this problem. now my land is posted hunt with permision only. you may have to pirsuade him that you are a responsible hunter. it could take time. good luck.

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Posted by kscooner on 06-12-2004 03:38 PM:

Guy's we all know that people will do all kinda rude and stupid things,but it is not the man that walks up and introduces himself and asks permission that does it.I understand that the man(or woman) owns the land and has every right to not give permission to hunt,but I will never understand why a farmer has a problem with someone walking up to his house and asking permission to walk in and get his dog.I will call everytime if he wants me to and he can walk down with me,but I am trying to save him trouble.Kansas has the same laws as far as right to retrieve , we have to have written permission to go on someones land wether we are retrieving hounds,flying a kite or running from a mad gorilla.If it is three in the morning and my dog is treeing ,I am going to him,I am sorry.You teach the dog how to read.I have a seven and a two year old sons and I hope they can remember what coonhunting was like,when they are grown.The loss of hunting land,not the antis,will end coonhunting eventually,mark my words guys.

Posted by warrior on 06-12-2004 09:03 PM:

I know this will upset you.

I've seen some things on here that as a landowner have me worried. I could care less about right to retrieve or how valuable your dogs are, I care about my property IT IS MINE. Now as a hunter I fully understand that we want and need land to hunt or to be able to go get your dogs. Unfortunately we live in a new era, we can thank the lawyers for that. We have to lose the attitude of "we've always done it that way". If someone denies you access or closes land to you move on quit whining and complaining. I agree the loss of hunting lands will be the death of not only ours but all hunting sports. How do we solve these problems I'm not sure but here are some sugestions. 1. Band together; this could mean hunting clubs to make the intial contact with the landowner either through cold contacts or advertising. Remember there is power in numbers pool your resources and contacts. Land owners are more willing to work with an organization that will police it own ranks. This could also be useful politically lobbying from an organizion representing many could be used to open public land or influence legislation. 2. Contact deer clubs about leasing hunting rights when deer season is closed. More and more landowners here in the south are granting leases on a season basis ie; oct-jan for deer hunters mar-apr for turkey sept and feb for small game. Some landowners are begging for coonhunters to come in and kill some coon to help in turkey management. 3. Lobby for tort reform, many lands in my area are owned by large corporations and have been closed due to lawsuits. Some of these lawsuits are frivolous but still cost the company large amounts of money. 4. Behave yourselves this may seem obvious but you'd be surprised at the number of hunters that will turn their dogs out on 10 acres that they have access to and follow the dogs where ever they may go. If you don't have enough land to contain your dogs don't turn out. Another thing drinking and hunting don't mix. On my properties if I find one beer can in the woods your out of there no questions asked. Leave the alchohol back at the clubhouse for after the hunt. 5. Police our own ranks. Someone said he knew of "freinds" that trespassed and was in a difficult spot. Not difficult for me I'd have them arrested and if they got mad tough. I'd turn in my own mother if she was endangering my right to hunt. I well remember being told of my granddad taking his youngest son, my uncle, to the game warden and having him confess to killing a doe out of season. It will take this kind of gut level honesty to convince many landowners. 6. Give expecting nothing in return. I once was given permission to be the sole hunter on 250 acres of land. I did not seek nor was I even aware that this land existed. What happened was that I heard of an older lady that wanted some deer meat because no one in her family hunted since her husband passed. So I sent her some roast and steaks, never even met her just sent it through a friend. A few days later I recieved a call from her son, he thanked me and told me I could hunt their family land as long as I kept his mama suplied with deer meat. I know this is a long post but I feel strongly about this. We each and every one is an ambassador for our sport we must do everything in our power to preserve it for the next generation, even if it means swallowing our pride to get it done. Thanks, David

Posted by kscooner on 06-13-2004 12:41 AM:

O.K David I agree with everything you say,but what this post is about is why won't a man give permission to a man to retrieve his dog when the man comes and introduces himself in broad daylight?I can not understand that concept.Thank you...Mick

Posted by warrior on 06-13-2004 02:49 AM:

Yep, tough situation

Me personally, I would give permission to someone who was courteous enough to come introduce himself before the fact. Hell, I'd probably tell him to load up his dogs and let's go hunting. But not everyone feels this way. In situations like this I just remember that this is america where you have the right to be an a**hole, some are bigger than others. That's their right and nothing is ever accomplished by getting into a pissing contest, in the end your both left there with your **** in your hand.

Posted by warrior on 10-18-2005 06:23 PM:

btt

Posted by warrior on 10-18-2005 06:31 PM:

btt

Posted by coldtrail on 10-18-2005 06:33 PM:

Wheres the right to retrieve law? Am I blind?

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Posted by Wayne Caudill on 10-18-2005 06:58 PM:

Right to Retrieve your dog

For those that are interested, check the Michigan and Virginia law, both of these states have such a law and it seems to work great in both states. If a man does not allow hunting, i'm sure he doesn't want your dog on him either. Hunting with dogs is a life long tradition and a dog is your personal property. You should be allowed to retrieve your property. No firearms shoul be allowed on property and no game taken. You have to leave said property immediately. Vehicles being used to retrieve should be allowed only with the permission of the land owner. At the same time you should have the right to retrieve wounded or fallen game, this should be of special interest to Deer hunters. Nothing should be shot and left to die simply because it crossed a property line. I believe in landowner and Hunters having good relationships, but I think THIS IS THE ONE THING that all State Associations should be working on in your state legislatures. A RIGHT TO RETRIEVE OF YOUR HUNTING DOG.****** Lease land by deer clubs and turkey hunters is causing a great problem in a lot of states, but the main problem is... the ignorance of each others sport

This is what Kentucky is attempting to pass in their state legislature.

(Wording adapted from the Michigan and Virginia state law.)

SUBMITTED BY: THE KENTUCKY HOUNDSMEN ASSOCIATION, INC.

RIGHT OF CERTAIN HUNTERS AND FISHERMEN TO GO ON LANDS OF ANOTHER; CARRYING FIREARMS OR BOWS AND ARROWS PROHIBITED.

FOX HUNTERS, COON HUNTERS AND OTHER SPORTSMEN, WHEN THE CHASE BEGINS ON OTHER LANDS, MAY FOLLOW THEIR DOGS ON PROHIBITED LANDS TO RETRIEVE THEIR DOGS, AND HUNTERS OF ALL OTHER GAME, WHEN THE CHASE BEGINS ON OTHER LANDS, MAY GO UPON PROHIBITED LANDS TO RETRIEVE WOUNDED AND FALLEN GAME, BUT MAY NOT CARRY FIREARMS OR BOWS AND ARROWS ON THEIR PERSON OR HUNT ANY GAME WHILE THEREON.

THE USE OF VEHICLES TO RETRIEVE DOGS OR WOUNDED AND FALLEN GAME ON PROHIBITED LANDS SHALL BE ALLOWED ONLY WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE LANDOWNER OR HIS AGENT. THE PERSON OR PERSONS SHALL NOT REMAIN ON THE LANDS BEYOND A REASONABLE PERIOD WHICH IS NECESSARY TO RETRIEVE DOG OR GAME.

ON FENCED OR POSTED PROPERTY OR FARM PROPERTY, A FISHERMAN WADING OR FLOATING A NAVIGABLE PUBLIC STREAM MAY, WITHOUT WRITTEN OR ORAL CONSENT, ENTER UPON PROPERTY WITHIN THE CLEARLY DEFINED BANK OF THE STREAM OR, WITHOUT DAMAGING FARM PRODUCTS, WALK A ROUTE AS CLOSELY PROXIMATE TO THE CLEARLY DEFINED BANK AS POSSIBLE WHEN NECESSARY TO AVOID A NATURAL OR ARTIFICIAL HAZARD OR OBSTRUCTION, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, A DAM, DEEP HOLE, OR A FENCE OR OTHER EXERCISE OF OWNERSHIP BY THE OWNER.

IF ASKED BY PROPERTY OWNER OR HIS AGENT TO LEAVE, PERSON OR PERSONS ARE TO LEAVE SAID PROPERTY IMMEDIATELY AND CONTACT LAW ENFORCE- MENT AUTHORIES TO HELP RETREIVE YOUR PERSONAL PROPERTY.

[note: all state associations, please feel free to use this draft]

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Posted by warrior on 10-18-2005 07:03 PM:

Sorry Coldtrail.

I just bumped this one the RTR law is in the Alabama law poll thread.

Posted by Wayne Caudill on 10-18-2005 07:24 PM:

btt

Posted by sheepster on 10-18-2005 10:45 PM:

if they are hatefull to you when you ask permission then be sure to be nice to them when you do hunt the adjoining land. Remember to leave the gate open and let all there cows out for them. Then dont forget to spotlight several big buck deer around there property. Last but not least remember to find something of value in there barn and help yourself.

Posted by sheepster on 10-18-2005 10:46 PM:

juuuuuuuust kidding.

Posted by masterd1976 on 10-18-2005 11:20 PM:

If he is like that turn your dogs loose on his property about 3:00 in the morning call the C.O. and have them go wake him up. Do this for 30 days and he may just tell you to go gettem and stop bothering him a 3 in the morning. I've never had to do this but it sure sounds funny.

Posted by Wayne Caudill on 10-19-2005 04:43 AM:

btt

Posted by Wayne Caudill on 10-19-2005 02:11 PM:

btt

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