UKC Forums - what to do about show jugdes

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Posted by blackisback on 07-09-2008 06:22 AM:

what to do about show jugdes

now don't take this wrong, but i was just wondering what to do about a judge that picks he's buddy's dog ever time. i have a dog that has made it to best of show, ever time it has been on the bench. i got best of show at first show we put her in so not worryed about ch. . but one of the jugdes that i have competed under 3 times, and seen 2 other shows and the same guy seems to win no matter what he puts up there. now some of them are good looking dogs, some not so good looking. now i dont plan on winning them all. but it sure makes me mad to know that. no matter how hard i work-train my dogs the buddy system gets you anyways.please post your thoughts

Posted by Cleo on 07-09-2008 12:22 PM:

Have you asked the judge about his decision reasoning?
He may "see" things differently then you do.

If not, don't waste your time and money showing at that club. You have to take loosing in stride! Trust me, I have lost enough times to vouch for that!
Just have fun. Learn something new. Thats what lifes all about!

Good luck with it! I'm sure you are doing a great job with your dogs!

Cleo

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Posted by on 07-09-2008 12:54 PM:

Heck, that's nothing. We got a guy from Michigan that comes down to our PKC hunt every month and wins everytime. I mean we have these hunts once a month , every month, year around and this guy wins just about every month. I have put 5 different judges on his cast and he still wins! What should I do??????

Really sux when somebodys dog is just good..

Posted by bearman on 07-09-2008 12:59 PM:

If you think this feller is doing you wrong? Well then just don't show under him. To bad its that way. Good luck to you.

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Posted by skyblu on 07-09-2008 01:28 PM:

JiM

There's a difference between HUNTS & SHOWS. You can't compare the two. HUNT wins are based on a DOG'S performance & SHOW wins are based on an INDIVIDUAL'S opinion/performance. On THAT note - (I've been showing dogs since 1949), there will always be good show judges along with a few that make questionable decisions. The standard answers from the "questionable" judges for their choices are: 'I liked that dog the best; that dog had better running gear; that dog was more mature; that dog looked like it could hunt; that dog had the best muscles." I consider all of those responses as empty words that don't reveal the judge's actual knowledge or abilities. Clubs don't always have many choices when selecting a BSJ, especially now with the high cost of travel. Some clubs have access to more BSJs than others, and a few have "political" agendas & that's why exhibitors want to know who's judging before traveling to a show. I win a few & lose a few - if I didn't enjoy the shows and the people who participate, I certainly wouldn't continue hauling dogs and racking up miles on my truck. I appreciate those who help the clubs by donating their time to judge because it's a fact that there will always be happy winners & possible criticism from those who didn't win. And sometimes BSJs take undeserved abuse.

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Posted by on 07-09-2008 02:25 PM:

My point is who's to say the judges friends dog isn't just plain better than the other guys? If the dog is better, it SHOULD beat him everytime.

Posted by randy kratzer on 07-09-2008 03:19 PM:

blackisback

I'm not saying the judge is doing right or wrong. the judge has standards to go by and when you enter your dog you are asking that man to make a diection from these standards if you don't like what he choose for a winner ask what was wrong with your dog. its not easy to judge a show and there will be someone who don't like the judges chooses so all I can tell you is if you are not a judge study the book get your licenses judge a few shows and see if everyone agrees with you. I have also seen where the 3 pannel sysetm has had 3 different winners to start with.

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Posted by on 07-09-2008 03:29 PM:

Idea

I wish it were easy to say stop supporting that particular club, but we all have to look into the future. With the price of gas at an all time high, and continuing to rise, we have no choice but to drive more to local clubs in order to finish a dog. Therefore maybe UKC can take into consideration some things to implement to clubs, like you must have at least 3 ACTIVE licensed bench show judges and they must rotate per event. Judges must attend a judging seminar to renew their license say every 3-4 years. Maybe this would keep an active list of judges that are truly "judging dogs" and not people. I would like to see those that judge the NATIONAL events attend a seminar yearly that Kathy Lorenzen & Mark Therfall host before they can judge at state or national level.

Dogs have taken a drastic change to correct a lot of conformation/structure problems we've had for the past 10 years, and we still need to correct some more. So judges and breeders are getting more education. Let's keep it improving!

Posted by Jeff Eaves on 07-09-2008 05:24 PM:

just a thought have your club keep a picture scrape book of all dogs an handlers. the club i joined this year i asked if we could do it they liked the idea . should help every one in long run inprove

Posted by jerry chapman on 07-09-2008 06:21 PM:

Read your rule book......it clearly states that "you pay for the judges opinion" if you don't like his/her opinion call ahead of time and see whos judgeing and just don't go!!!!!!

I don't think theres a legal thing UKC or the club can do about it.....

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Posted by 1939 on 07-10-2008 01:11 AM:

Jim, if he keeps winning every month you can bar him from the club. That's what some clubs do if you win to much. LOL!

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Posted by RedBones4me on 07-10-2008 02:19 AM:

Re: Idea

quote:
Originally posted by StackemUp
I wish it were easy to say stop supporting that particular club, but we all have to look into the future. With the price of gas at an all time high, and continuing to rise, we have no choice but to drive more to local clubs in order to finish a dog. Therefore maybe UKC can take into consideration some things to implement to clubs, like you must have at least 3 ACTIVE licensed bench show judges and they must rotate per event. Judges must attend a judging seminar to renew their license say every 3-4 years. Maybe this would keep an active list of judges that are truly "judging dogs" and not people.

If something like this were done you would have to drive long distances to show your dog because you wont have shows at the local level any more.

Most clubs dont have but 2 judges and getting them to rotate is like pulling teeth and forcing them to attend a seminar for something that they dont even get paid for wont happen.

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 07-10-2008 02:39 AM:

i have never had a problem with a judge.i would say
the nfl,nba and mlb have found out after instant replay
judges or right 90% of the time.

Posted by redneck_girl on 07-10-2008 04:32 AM:

Re: JiM

quote:
Originally posted by skyblu
There's a difference between HUNTS & SHOWS. You can't compare the two. HUNT wins are based on a DOG'S performance & SHOW wins are based on an INDIVIDUAL'S opinion/performance. On THAT note - (I've been showing dogs since 1949), there will always be good show judges along with a few that make questionable decisions. The standard answers from the "questionable" judges for their choices are: 'I liked that dog the best; that dog had better running gear; that dog was more mature; that dog looked like it could hunt; that dog had the best muscles." I consider all of those responses as empty words that don't reveal the judge's actual knowledge or abilities. Clubs don't always have many choices when selecting a BSJ, especially now with the high cost of travel. Some clubs have access to more BSJs than others, and a few have "political" agendas & that's why exhibitors want to know who's judging before traveling to a show. I win a few & lose a few - if I didn't enjoy the shows and the people who participate, I certainly wouldn't continue hauling dogs and racking up miles on my truck. I appreciate those who help the clubs by donating their time to judge because it's a fact that there will always be happy winners & possible criticism from those who didn't win. And sometimes BSJs take undeserved abuse.

AGREE! I haven't been doing this since 1949, heck my mom wasn't even born till 1954...anyway, been doing it long enough to know that an "opinion' is just that. On the other end of the spectrum, a BSJ can see and 'feel' a whole lot more than the spectaters. Now, as a BSJ, I have 'felt' things that people in the croud obviously could not feel, didn't even see it when the dog worked on the ground. As an example, at a show there was this pretty, I mean gorgeous bluetick. I watched him for quite a while as his owner had him on the lead, in and out of the club house. He moved great! I was even thinking in my head how he'd make a great stud for my female. As the event went on, I knelt down to pet him, ran my hands along his back and ribs....OMG!!! I felt something that I couldn't see, his ribs went (spine to belly) in a nice bow, but when it got to the tips of the ribs, they shot straight out. I'm thinking , WTH is that? To this day, I'm still baffled. I have no idea what the problem was, but it changed my mind real quick....
As I was saying, as a person just watching, you have no idea what the BSJ is thinking, seeing and feeling in the hounds he is judging. His general explaination of your examples above may just be the nice way of saying....'you're dog isn't as nicely put together as this one'...or...'he's not the best public speaker out there'.....or....'he's fulla pooop'!!!!

There is obvious corruption in some, but there very few! There is the 'buddy system' in some, not as many as people complain about.

If in doubt, and you are that upset about it...try this. Ask the person that won over you to put their dog back on the bench, along side of yours, and ask the BSJ to point out the attributes in the other hound that made him superior to yours. You may learn something or you may bring a phony to public eye....you'll never know until you try.

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Posted by smokin-1-mo on 07-10-2008 06:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Heck, that's nothing. We got a guy from Michigan that comes down to our PKC hunt every month and wins everytime. I mean we have these hunts once a month , every month, year around and this guy wins just about every month. I have put 5 different judges on his cast and he still wins! What should I do??????

Really sux when somebodys dog is just good..

jim you got that right,i would call him and tell him the hunts been cancealed..................lol

that was funny...

Posted by on 07-10-2008 04:49 PM:

I did. He showed up again anyway. And won. With a different dog.

Posted by Melanie H. on 07-10-2008 06:31 PM:

I really don't see why everyone gets so wound up over these bench shows...

I bench show my dogs.. I have lost to dogs one night and then showed against them the next night under a new judge and won..

That is just the way the world turns... Don't show under that person.. Or go and contribute your money to the club, get your butt whooped and chalk it up to better luck next time

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