UKC Forums - Must See: The Pickens Plan

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Posted by Grant Noeske on 07-09-2008 01:17 AM:

Must See: The Pickens Plan

More and cheaper oil isn't the answer. Less oil is. View this video.

http://www.pickensplan.org/

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Posted by rrs on 07-09-2008 01:31 AM:

this plan has been presented by mr. pickens to gw, he listened, but...... great idea by an energy billionere who owns mesa power, no doubt effective leadership is needed to make this and other alternatives to importing oil a reality, has been sadly lacking in both the white house and congress... drill-drill and drill some more not the only or best solution....

Posted by coondogless on 07-09-2008 05:59 AM:

Mr. Pickens has millions and millions if not billions invested in the things he is pushing. He stands to profit in a HUGE way if he gets his way.

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Posted by Grant Noeske on 07-09-2008 02:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coondogless
Mr. Pickens has millions and millions if not billions invested in the things he is pushing. He stands to profit in a HUGE way if he gets his way.

You're 100% right, but regardless of what we do, someone is going to profit in a HUGE way. If we do nothing, countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Venezuela, etc...will continue to profit in a HUGE way. I'd rather it be a billionaire from Texas and other American investors in wind/solar/natural gas projects. There's also nothing preventing any of us from buying stock in public, American wind/solar/natural gas companies. We can't buy stock in OPEC.

Anyone who can help us reduce our dependence on foreign oil and stop shipping $700 Billion a year out of this country SHOULD profit in a huge way. Either we reward Americans for leading America to energy independence (and create American jobs and keep American cash here in the process) or we continue begging OPEC, et al to produce more and lower prices....all while we ship them $700 Billion a year, just so they can turn around and buy up our assets (real estate, stock in American companies, etc...).

Regardless, all solutions should be considered. This may not be the best solution, but anything that gets us off of foreign oil is an improvement.

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Posted by on 07-09-2008 02:48 PM:

I never thought I would hear myself say this but I honestly believe more oil will not solve anything. No matter how much oil is found, no matter where they find it or who has it, oil will bankrupt us from here on out. A new, cheaper, renewable source of energy for transportation is the only thing that will help and save the average working man.

I am against more off-shore drilling and I am against drilling in the Artic because it will never make gas any cheaper for me no matter how much they find. It will only make the oil companies richer.

Posted by rrs on 07-09-2008 03:01 PM:

sad, but some truth in what jim says... we need alternative and new sources of energy and not just total dependence on oil as some-big oil propose as the best solution.... no doubt oil will always be part of the energy supply, but not have a lock on all we do as is the case now.... drill-drill will just unearth more of the same... no doubt that pickens and others willing to take the $$$ risk will-should profit... he is right that leadership from the gov't. is lacking and the right leadership can jump start this much needed effort....

Posted by John D on 07-09-2008 03:15 PM:

Re: Must See: The Pickens Plan

quote:
Originally posted by Grant Noeske
More and cheaper oil isn't the answer. Less oil is. View this video.

http://www.pickensplan.org/

There it is. A possible, reasonable, long term solution.

As crazy as it sounds ,its going to take continued, high fuel prices to get us through this.

High fuel prices will spur American ingenuity to come up with a solution. Americans work for the buck and like said above, I'd much rather see an American billionaire with the money than some Moslem wackos or South American dictator.

So, bring on wind farms and natural gas powered vehicles. Lets get away from imported oil, natural gas powered power plants, and energy sources that take away from our food products.

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 07-09-2008 05:36 PM:

See the thing is there is nothing in this world that isn't a give and take situation.

In one wind turbine field at Altamont, CA esitmates range up to over 1000 raptors killed annually. 75 to 116 golden eagles are part of that figure. That figure also doesn't include bats.

So far, science hasn't developed a means to reduce the bird kill for turbine fields.

There is no one solution to our energy problems. Just like everything else, the solution is complex and multifaceted.

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Posted by Grant Noeske on 07-09-2008 06:40 PM:

You're right. Wind turbines kill birds and there's no one solution to the energy problem.

But to be fair, here's more information from the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service on Migratory Bird Mortality:

http://www.fws.gov/birds/mortality-fact-sheet.pdf

Some highlights:
1. "Building window strikes may account for 97 million to 976 million bird deaths each year."

2. "Communication towers conservatively kill 4 to 5 million birds annually (possibly closer to 40 to 50 million; a nationwide cumulative impacts study should help resolve this question)."

3. "In one recent study, pesticides were estimated to result in the direct deaths of at least 72 million birds annually."

4. "Many citizens would be surprised to learn that domestic and feral cats may kill hundreds of millions of songbirds and other avian species each year. A recent study in Wisconsin estimated that in that state alone, domestic rural cats kill roughly 39 million birds annually. "

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 07-09-2008 07:45 PM:

Grant,

My point is there is no panacea. The natural world doesn't work that way. Any energy solution is going to have a bad side. I am not saying that we should ignore potential solutions due to a bad side, but we need to be careful and make wise decisions.

Now, don't even get me going on the cat issue.lol

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