UKC Forums - How would you score this

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Posted by coon dog junky on 04-08-2008 01:54 AM:

How would you score this

The last dump of the night we have three dogs left in cast. dogs A&B tree together & dog C split tree's. The hunt is over when we arive at the tree's 75 yd apart. Dog's A & B are circled for it is to leafy to find any thing we start shining dog C's tree with 9 min 45 seconds up on the tree I found the coon but by the time the other two got over to me the shine time has elapsed & judge said time was up & would not even look at the coon just walked away. Very unsportsmanship I thought.
What do you guys say?

Posted by Richard Bull on 04-08-2008 02:08 AM:

Trees must be scored within the 10 minutes of shine time thats allowed to search the tree.

Been in your shoes alot but thats why there are rules.

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Posted by on 04-08-2008 02:12 AM:

Yep!
Following the rules is not unsportsmanlike. Not following the rule is poor sportsmanship. Crying because a judge required the rules to be followed is worse yet.

Posted by coon dog junky on 04-08-2008 02:16 AM:

if that is the case I guess It will take me 10 min. to look at there coon I walk real slow. The thing with this situation is they were only 20 feet from me flat ground nothing to climb over or anything but took them about 1 min to get to me

Posted by coon dog junky on 04-08-2008 02:18 AM:

so you are saying when there is about one min. left might as well quit shining cause won't be able to score it any way

Posted by stinkbait1 on 04-08-2008 02:28 AM:

if u didn't have a non-hunting judge why did u leave the other tree with dogs a&b or were the rset of the cast on the other side of the tree? if yall were all at the same tree then i think u got screwed with a capitol S!

Posted by Tim Green on 04-08-2008 02:33 AM:

That is riduculous....You have 10 minutes of shining to find the coon....You found it within the 10 minutes, I don't care if it took you another 5 to show it to them, if they were any kind of sportsman they should have looked at it. Who won the cast anyway? If it was one of them I guess the plastic trophy was more important than having a good hunt.

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Posted by Richard Bull on 04-08-2008 02:53 AM:

OK lets say your dog is trailing with 7 minutes to go on the 2 hours, do you just keep letting the hunt run over because it took 12 minutes for him to tree?

Guys time is time, when its up, it's up..

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Posted by Richard Bull on 04-08-2008 02:55 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by coon dog junky
so you are saying when there is about one min. left might as well quit shining cause won't be able to score it any way

You have 10 MINUTES to SEARCH and SCORE your tree.

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Posted by coon dog junky on 04-08-2008 04:21 AM:

Dog A won the judges dog & we did shine there tree first for 10 min then went to my tree and you know the rest

Posted by redryder1 on 04-08-2008 04:34 AM:

Sounds like u got screwed

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Posted by coon dog junky on 04-08-2008 04:41 AM:

I have read the rules over & over it say's you have to see the coon with in ten min. It does not say any thing about haveing to be scored by ten min. I guess this is another one on how you interpit the ruleing

Posted by jculler8 on 04-08-2008 05:17 AM:

Coon was found with :15 seconds left to shine, does not matter who found it, it was found before shine time expired. Plus it!

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Posted by truly on 04-08-2008 05:54 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Bull
You have 10 MINUTES to SEARCH and SCORE your tree.

i have never been in this situation [yet] but what if the cast refused to move in a timely fashion just so they could run the clock out? if it were obvious could they be scratched for "not participating"?

Posted by Marcus McDaniel on 04-08-2008 06:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tim Green
That is riduculous....You have 10 minutes of shining to find the coon....You found it within the 10 minutes, I don't care if it took you another 5 to show it to them, if they were any kind of sportsman they should have looked at it. Who won the cast anyway? If it was one of them I guess the plastic trophy was more important than having a good hunt.

TIM, I AGREE WITH YOU 110%. IF A MAN FOUND THE COON WITHIN THE 10 MIN. AT LEAST BE MAN ENOUGH TO SCORE IT AN GIVE THE " PROPER " WINNER HIS DUES. I HAVE BEEN IN THIS TYPE OF CAST AN I WAS THE ONE WHO GOT BEAT BECAUSE THE OTHER MAN FOUND A COON THE LAST 10 SEC OF HIS SHINE TIME AN THAT PUT HIM OVER ME BY 25 PLUS. LETS LET THE HOUNDS WIN NOT THE HANDLERS.

Posted by John Wittenborn on 04-08-2008 12:08 PM:

UNDERSTANDING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE????

Rule 8f says, "If dog(s) declared treed, 10 minutes of hunting time may be demanded to SEARCH the tree, or place of refuge, which is not a time out. No plus points will be awarded if coon is seen after 10 minutes shining time has elapsed".

The key word here is SEARCH, NOT SCORE the tree in 10 minutes. Also the coon was found within the 10 minute shining time allotted. Where in this Rule, does it say, that you have 10 minutes to SCORE the tree??????????? It does say that no plus points will be awarded, if COON IS SEEN after the 10 minutes shining time has elapsed.

In some of you alls way of thinking, just when does SCORING THE TREE END, when everyone has seen the coon, or after it has been recorded on the score card, or when the dogs have been released?????

IMO, if this situation happened as STATED ABOVE, that judge should never be used again, for his UNSPORTSMANSHIP ATTITUDE. And some wonder why PARTICIPATION is at a all time low across the country, NOT ME.

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Posted by jculler8 on 04-08-2008 12:33 PM:

Re: UNDERSTANDING THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE????

quote:
Originally posted by John Wittenborn
Rule 8f says, "If dog(s) declared treed, 10 minutes of hunting time may be demanded to SEARCH the tree, or place of refuge, which is not a time out. No plus points will be awarded if coon is seen after 10 minutes shining time has elapsed".

The key word here is SEARCH, NOT SCORE the tree in 10 minutes. Also the coon was found within the 10 minute shining time allotted. Where in this Rule, does it say, that you have 10 minutes to SCORE the tree??????????? It does say that no plus points will be awarded, if COON IS SEEN after the 10 minutes shining time has elapsed.

In some of you alls way of thinking, just when does SCORING THE TREE END, when everyone has seen the coon, or after it has been recorded on the score card, or when the dogs have been released?????

IMO, if this situation happened as STATED ABOVE, that judge should never be used again, for his UNSPORTSMANSHIP ATTITUDE. And some wonder why PARTICIPATION is at a all time low across the country, NOT ME.

It's almost sickening how people bend the rules in their favor to win a stupid nite hunt! You hit the nail on the head of why participation is down. That is the reason plain and simple, people do not want to put up with that petty bs. Cmon people are we still in 1st grade here???

Posted by coon dog junky on 04-08-2008 03:07 PM:

I agree with you I got out of comp. hunts for 5 years because of sh-t like this & almost did again. The judge (was) even a friend but is a so called profesional handler, or he thinks he is anyways. noticed I said WAS.

Posted by hlandersjr on 04-08-2008 04:27 PM:

Going with the information you have provided, it is simple.
If you announced aloud that you had the coon before the judge announced the shine time was over, then the coon should be scored.

It is apperant that the judge and other handler agreed you announced seeing the coon or they would not have came over to your location.

You should have told the judge that you found the coon in the 10 minute time frame and he and the other handler needed to look at the coon to score it or so they could tell the master of hound they saw it because you wanted to question the call.

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Posted by John D on 04-08-2008 04:35 PM:

No, you have 10 minutes to see and score the coon.

Its a black and white rule.

I drew man on a cast at a big hunt last year whose dog had a tree by himself. He shined and shined and just as time was winding down, He said, "here he is!" about 3 seconds before I said time was up. When I said that, he got all pissy and started mumbling and stomping. Thats when I said, "time is up, but I want to see this coon, anyway". He shined his light up and there was no coon to be seen.

So, if you think you got the shaft because you didn't get it scored, and think the rule needs to be loosened, give some thought about what will happen if you allow coons to be scored after the shine time.

10 minutes is plenty of time to find and score a coon if you use it wisely.

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Posted by on 04-08-2008 04:59 PM:

John Whit, the rule says no plus points will be given if coon is seen after shine time has elapsed. It takes a majority to plus the tree. If a majority do not see the coon before time expires, the tree cannot be plussed. That is the rule, pure and simple. A majoirty of the cast must see the coon before the 10 minutes elapses. Just follow the rules.

Posted by Bill(Chew) on 04-08-2008 05:30 PM:

I beg to differ with you. UKC has stated in the past that the coon MUST be seen in the 10 minutes, but ONCE IT'S SEEN WITHIN THE 10 MINUTES IT COUNTS, even if the 10 minutes are up before the majority of the cast has seen the coon. That does not mean you can take 5 more minutes to FIND the coon, you most show the .rest of the cast the coon

If you cut it off at 10 minutes you leave it open for someone to take 5 minutes to get around to your side of the tree and, oh well the time is out! And yes, it can sometimes take 5 or more minutes to get to the other side of the tree where I hunt.

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Posted by on 04-08-2008 05:58 PM:

Really Bill? When did they say that? If you have an Advisor book, it gives a direct answer to this question. The Advisor states on page 142 that " it is UKC's official interpretation that the coon must be seen by the majority of the cast within the allotted 10 minutes shining time"
That should put this one to rest but I'm sure it won't.

Posted by jculler8 on 04-08-2008 06:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
Really Bill? When did they say that? If you have an Advisor book, it gives a direct answer to this question. The Advisor states on page 142 that " it is UKC's official interpretation that the coon must be seen by the majority of the cast within the allotted 10 minutes shining time"
That should put this one to rest but I'm sure it won't.

It won't come to a rest because there are too many people out there that aren't good sportsmen and bend the rules to their favor.

The point being made here is not a rule interpretation. I hope all can read black and white and comprehend, however, there needs to be some sort of consequence for those who are "dragging their feet". Maybe it needs to be in black and white, that if cast members are "dragging their feet" to score a tree, hoping that time expires, they are automatically scratched... yet that's kind of tough to do when the one carrying the scorecard is dragging his feet.

Correct Jim?

Posted by Bill(Chew) on 04-08-2008 07:36 PM:

Jim, I may be wrong but I'm wanting to remember Todd K said it on a question post or Advisor. If I'm wrong, and you have the Advisor book page # saying I am, then I might just as well cut off shine time early because it would be wasting time.

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