UKC Forums - Rule question

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Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 03-05-2008 04:33 AM:

Rule question

This is just a hypothetical question...............

Three dog cast A,B,C strike and A and B tree together dog C splits. A and B have there coon and when you get to dog C his coon is in the next tree over. Small limbs touch between the trees. How would you score dog C?

I know this sounds like a dumb question and I know how everyone will answer but I got bored today and read the rules again and this just hit me funny????? LOL

Posted by mudman on 03-05-2008 04:52 AM:

Re: Rule question

quote:
Originally posted by CHRIS SUTTON
This is just a hypothetical question...............

Three dog cast A,B,C strike and A and B tree together dog C splits. A and B have there coon and when you get to dog C his coon is in the next tree over. Small limbs touch between the trees. How would you score dog C?

I know this sounds like a dumb question and I know how everyone will answer but I got bored today and read the rules again and this just hit me funny????? LOL

this really isnt a dumb question often a coon will cross over to sneak down and take off or the dog could be winding the coon ive seen this quite a bit here lately

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Posted by on 03-05-2008 05:13 AM:

As far as one tree or two? You score it however the judge decides to before the first light goes up.

Posted by cowboyjones on 03-05-2008 05:18 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
As far as one tree or two? You score it however the judge decides to before the first light goes up.

LOL.. YOU WOULDNT KNOW TILL THE FIRST LIGHT WENT UP IT, THAT THE COON WAS IN THE OTHER TREE?? JUDGE'S CALL

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Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 03-05-2008 05:24 AM:

JiM, I guess the reason I said it sounds like a dumb question is this........... I have hunted in the hunts now UKC/PKC for about 22 years and this come up today with me and Loyd Wilson

I was telling him a story about a hunt I was on about 10 years ago and this happened to me, I was dog C. They voted to minus me because alltho they said the limbs touched they didnt "think" the coon crossed!! LOL I giggled and put a ? on the card and the panel turned it over like in my mind they should of.

And out of nowhere Lyod asked me where in the rules it says if the trees touch or if the coon can cross you plus it? Now Ive probably read the rules hundereds and hundereds of times and was sure it was in there BUT.................I dont see it? lol

Is this rule kinnda like the canopy rule hunters made up for our benifit? Ole Loyd kinnds stired me on this one

Posted by cowboyjones on 03-05-2008 05:29 AM:

canopy rule ...LMAO..... AINT HEARD THAT ONE IN A WHILE!!

Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 03-05-2008 05:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by cowboyjones
canopy rule ...LMAO..... AINT HEARD THAT ONE IN A WHILE!!

lol, Its will surprise you how many will fight ya if you tell them there isnt one!!! LOL

Posted by Joey Donelson on 03-05-2008 06:23 AM:

I guess the question is with all good conscience could the coon cross out on those limbs. I have seen them cross on limbs that I never would have thought possible. I was hunting one night with Jarvis, Dale Boldin & some more the night they brought Homer back from Ind after they bought him and he got treed with the coon looking at us. Harold Jewell went to squalling with his mouth and that coon got to moving & coming down that tree and climbed out on a small limb which he rode down at least four feet into another tree. When he got in the other tree the limb shot back up and the wasn't anything touching and it would have been impossible to have scored him if he had done it before we got there. We were just pleasure hunting so we plussed him up & went on.

Posted by on 03-05-2008 12:33 PM:

I misread your question. I thought you were asking if A&B's tree should be scored with your tree.
As for crossing out, that is simply a cast desicion. I am suprised the MOH overturnd that one. If a majority believe the coon didn't cross, I would think the MOH would almost always go with that majority. It isn't a rules question about crossing out, it is a cast desicion as to whether or not that is the coon the dog treed.

The Advisor book does discuss crossing out on page 95 if anyone wants to look it up.

Posted by Stephen Chamblee on 03-05-2008 12:50 PM:

I was on a PKC hunt three weeks ago as a spectator to try to learn more about the rules. Three dogs in the cast all three treed. When we got to the tree it was on the side of the creek leaning toward the creek with the main trunk of another tree touching its trunk.... Should it be circle or minus?

I just want to know from a rules stand point how it should have been ruled.

Posted by on 03-05-2008 01:40 PM:

Again, the rules don't directly address this, it is a cast decision. Just look it over good, use your best judgement, vote and move on.

Posted by Allen / UKC on 03-05-2008 02:07 PM:

Jim,
It would actually be a "judges" decision to make and not necessarily an automatic "cast" decision. Of course, if a cast member doesn't agree with the judges ruling on whether there is a sufficient cross-over thus being able to score it in the next tree over then he could question it and ask for a cast vote. It would be a situation where it would take a majority to overturn the judges ruling.

Posted by larrypoe on 03-05-2008 02:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CHRIS SUTTON
JiM, I guess the reason I said it sounds like a dumb question is this........... I have hunted in the hunts now UKC/PKC for about 22 years and this come up today with me and Loyd Wilson

Ole Loyd kinnds stired me on this one

Chris,

You realy got to be more carefull who you hang out with.

Them ol outlaws like Loyd Wilson will get you in 9 kinds of trouble.

LOL, tell him I said Hi.

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Posted by John D on 03-05-2008 03:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
You score it however the judge decides to before the first light goes up.

I've heard and used this before, but won't anymore. You can't tell how trees are tied together until you look up. I don't recall anything in the rules saying that the decision has to be made before looking up.

At Autumn Oaks this past year this cost me a cast win. I had 1st tree and when we get there my dog was on one tree and 2 others on a tree 50 ft. away and the 4th milling around. We all agreed to call it split and when we looked up, my dog was on a big dead tree with one good solid limb going up and out into the top of the tree they were treed on and there were 2 coons setting there. In my mind, coons probably climbed both trees and ended up together but of course I had agreed to split and was outvoted on anything at that point.

From now on when I'm carrying the card we're going to shine trees that are close together and only move dogs up when its obvious the trees are split.

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Posted by on 03-05-2008 03:13 PM:

I understand your point John. What I am saying is that if they try to say it is all one tree after they figure out that their dogs are sitting under an empty, that isn't gonna work for me. It is much easier to avoid problems two minutes after the shining starts if it is decided and final as to how we are scoreing them BEFORE we start scoring them.

Posted by jawscardodger on 03-05-2008 03:23 PM:

Thats my ? for allen can the judge change his mind once shining time as stared?

Posted by on 03-05-2008 03:39 PM:

I'm sure he can but that will usually end up in front of the MOH and somebody is gonna be unhappy. If the judge says " this is how I'm scoring these trees, anybody want to question it?" BEFORE the shing starts, it is purty hard for anyone to start crying about how it is being scored after the shing starts.

Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 03-05-2008 04:46 PM:

Will do larrypoe!!

So, in the adviser there is a RULE that says if the trees touch or coon can cross out you plus it??

Posted by coondogbean on 03-06-2008 12:27 AM:

well a ? a few years back i was at a hunt dogs were split mine was between us and the other dogs. we went by him to handle and he was standing treed underan oak canopy but was not standing on the tree or at the base. i was minused for bein off tree. i threw my light up and the coon was sittin in the limbs of the oak above. Should the dog been considered showing tree? either way i was beat so it really didnt matter but just curious

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Posted by CHRIS SUTTON on 03-06-2008 01:07 AM:

Jessie, In your circumstance it would be a judgmental call. There is no "canopy" rule UKC or PKC. Also, dog does not have to be up on the tree or "right" at the base to be showing that he is treed. As long as the dog is showing where he is treed at is good enough.

Hows hunting on the east coast of Kansas? Im only hunting a 8 month old pup bet its been rough over here!! See ya

Posted by coondogbean on 03-06-2008 01:17 AM:

i hadnt been since season opened except the hunt at girard

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