UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- TANK/TODD,Please make this rule clear (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=1960)

TANK/TODD,Please make this rule clear

I was at a hunt Sat. night and this came up but I am not sure how this is to be applied and the MOH tried to clear it up the best he could, but , on the way home I was thinking of all the possibilitys this would work and I don't see where this can be fair to all dogs.

OK;3 dog cast is turned and dogs A,B,andC are struck in order.Dog A is declared treed and Dog C is declared split treed. After scoring both trees and both dogs having coons they are recasted to Dog B. here is my question,according to the non-hunting dog rule after two coons have been scored or one hour of hunting time has passed the strike opens back up on any dogs still trailing.The way the Moh states the rule is that Dog B remains with a 75 strike possition open and Dogs A and C strike back in for 100 and 75.

Part Two:Same scene Dogs A,B,and C are struck.This time Dog A is declared treed and scores a coon.Dog A is then cut loose and is struck for 25.Dog C is then treed and also scores a coon.When Dog C is recasted does he now have the chance to strike for 100???????? If he does what happens to Dog A's stike does it stay at 25? If this is the case how is this fair to dog A?

Thanks for the help
Jamie Coolidge

If dog is not working as part of cast and is holding first strike or second strike, etc., all strike points will be open to other dogs after coons have been treed and seen in two separate trees, or one hour of hunting time has elapsed.

Notice the "If dog is not working as part of cast".
Can you tell us a little more about what dog B is doing?
From what you've stated so far, I don't see any reason to open up first strike to the other dogs.

__________________
bruce ordway

Dog B is holding second stike open.He could be doing anything, shoot he might be down on the river barking at carp but he is still holding the strike possition.

Yeah, but you are split treeing, why is it that dog B is not working as part of the cast compared to the other dogs?

__________________
bruce ordway

You have 3 independent Dogs two of them get treed and have coon while the other (DOG B) is out face dragin all over the county. The question is not why Dog B hasn't been with the other two it is what is done with the strikes when recasted.

>The question is not why Dog B hasn't been with the other two<
I think it is.. just my opinion

__________________
bruce ordway

What I'm thinking is that the non-hunting dog rule doesn't apply when you have dogs split treeing as you described. The strike points just stay as they are. Guess we'll have to wait for Todd or Tank to clear this up for us.

__________________
bruce ordway

In regards to your question.

The rules are not completely clear but this is is how the rule is to
be applied.This rule is for same dog has to tree two coon and then he will go in for 100 75 50 strike points or after one hour has
elapsed.

WHAT??????

I don't know how the original writer of that rule came up with the term "non-working dog" cause that can be misleading. You can only guess what the other dog is doing in regards to working or non-working. But the fact remains that after two coons have been scored while one dog is holding a strike position open, then the 100 strike position becomes available again.

It can be in the case of one dog treeing two coon while dog B is running or two dogs each treeing one coon as in the scenario above. Is it fair? I think so. It allows the dogs that are treeing coon to be better able to compete against the dogs of another cast that are staying together and turning in for 100 on each strike.

The worse problem in my mind is having to keep turning back loose in the same spot. You have one dog that is trailing and won't get treed and the other dogs have already treed two in a small patch of woods and now we have to turn them loose again in there? C'mon, that usually spells trouble in one form or another.

rethink

Everyboby still want that independent sucker?On another post most voted for independent coondogs .be careful you might get what you want.

So What Your Saying

is if dogs A & C break off and split tree .....say within the first 5 minutes of the hunt and each have a coon......dog B is running straignt ahead both A & C have a coon when they are cut loose they are both competeing for 100 & 75 strike???????

I thought it was a rule for a dog that was not working with the cast, shoot the way this reads, dogs A & C could rack up as long as dog B is running ahead of them or they catch up to him and they tree together. COOOOOOOLLLLLLLLL

If A & C are good layup dogs or get those kitten while B takes ole Mamma then A&C are going to clean up, in that case

sure do like that Independent dog even more NOW !!!!!!!!!!

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

part two

In part two of your question I would say when you recast dog "A" and he strikes the qualifacations for the rule start over. So dog "C" would strike in for 25. That is how I would interpt the rule.

__________________
Ricky B.
Bent Creek Kennel
Appomattox, VA

Blue and Gray Houndsman Club
Appomattox, VA

The way I read it, dog's A & C keep striking in for 100 and 75 regardless once the stipulations of the rule are met. Only until dog B's strike points are scored does it start over. As long as dog B doesn't tree, the strike points are open as if he isn't even in the hunt. That's how I read "all strike points", not just first...

Part Two:Same scene Dogs A,B,and C are struck.This time Dog A is declared treed and scores a coon.Dog A is then cut loose and is struck for 25.Dog C is then treed and also scores a coon.When Dog C is recasted does he now have the chance to strike for 100???????? If he does what happens to Dog A's stike does it stay at 25? If this is the case how is this fair to dog A?

I think Todd answered first part of question originally posted quite well. Not sure if he addressed second scenario though. This is how I would judge it.

In scenario one, score dog B as a non-working dog and strike reopens on 100 & 75.

In scenario two however, I think it would go down like this.

When dog A is recast prior to Dog C being treed he would go in for 25, when dog C is treed and recast he would also go in for 25. Only dog B is being considered the non-working dog, Dog C would have to be struck in at next available position due to Dog A still being considered as part of the cast that is a "working" dog. The only way dog A or C can be restruck in at 100 or 75 is if neither dog has been struck prior to release of either dog. Hope that makes sense to ya.

__________________
Hunt em' up!

When dogs A and C are recast.
1.if they strike a different track than dog B is working,they move up on strike points.100 and 75 (rule 7).
2. if they cover dog B,they get 50 and 25 points (rule 2A).
3.if dog A or C covers dog B,he get 50 points.
4.if dog A or C strikes thier own track they get 100 points.

Todd, didn't mean to private message you.
jimmy.

Hmmm.. I guess this gets applied a little differently than I thought. Oh well, I learned something today.

__________________
bruce ordway

Sure glad I aint carrying the score card in this scenerio LOL...... I would need 2 pencils and 3 erasers and would be so boggled at the end that a lie detector couldn't get who got what out of me. I read it you move dogs up if they on their own track then move them back down if they tree with dog B. Move em back up if they tree 2 coons while B is chasing the easter bunny...... move em back down if B trees a possum and they back him unless they are split on a slick tree then circle theirs and minus B. Holey Moley LOL

I wanna try this one....

It makes no difference what track is being run, who covers who etc.

IF a dog is trailing(holding a strike position) and has NOT been on either of the two trees containing coons, the strike points are opened back up.

How hard can this be to understand? A perfect example was given at the World Finals in 2002.

__________________
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss each other

Tank I agree 100% with what you are saying about dog holding strike but not treeing.

But, in scenario two of original question, are we allowing Dog C to be struck in for 100 pts. over dog A?

If your answer is yes, your going to have to give me more than rule 7 as the reasoning because only dog B is considered the non-working dog in the cast.

__________________
Hunt em' up!

Tank,
I disagree, Rule 2 A states. If a dog is turned back on a trail that is being worked,he gets next available position.
In order to apply rule 7, Dog B would have to be alone. If the other dogs cover dog B, dog B would be working with dogs A and C,and therefore be part of the cast.

In the second scenario...

Dog A, B, C are struck in that order. Dog A is in "trailing mode". Dog B is declared treed, scored with a coon and recast, IF he opens before Dog C is treed AND scored PLUS he goes in for 25. IF Dog C is declared treed, scored with a coon and turned loose, C is eligible is now eligible to strike back in for 100.

Rule 7 will override rule 2a AFTER 2 coons or 1 hour has elapsed.

This is the correct way to score the situation. If you feel it is unfair to dog B, petition your breed assoc. to clarify/change the rule.

__________________
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss each other

Thank-you Tank

While I personally disagree with letting Dog C strike in over Dog A, I guess tha't just the luck of the night.

__________________
Hunt em' up!

Great, now we have override rules! (in Tanks scenario)

Dog A would have to be alone,if a dog is w/him rule 7 does not apply.

If Dog B trees a coon,and is recast to dogs A and C he gets 25 strike points when he opens.

Dog C trees a coon. Dog C is recast to dogs A and B. If Dog C strikes he gets 25 points (100 if dog B has not opened).No way Dog C can strike for 100 over Dog B's 25.

Rule 7 is for a dog,you would like to break a axe handle over his head. He just keeps on barking, never trees.

Dogs B and C would be elligible for 100 strike points,when they are cast together or niether one of them is holding strike points
open. After they tree 2 coons.

We have override rules in many instances jimmy.

don't have time to explain ALL of them to you. I will be glad to answer them for ya as they come up though.

I also disagree that an axe handle is needed, it definitely was not needed when Gap, Cutter and Earl were treeing coons while Henry was trailing around in last years final cast. All are good hounds. Some days the bear eats you...

__________________
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss each other