UKC Forums - UKC, barred stud owner....

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-28-2007 08:38 PM:

UKC, barred stud owner....

A good friend of mine bred to a stud a few months ago. When he went to register his pup he was told that the B&T female couldnt be registered due to her sire's owner has recently been barred from UKC. My friend had nothing to due with the circumstances of the stud owner being barred, yet he is being punished for it. What can be done in this situation. I think he has been wronged unjustly. I see plenty of people on this forum who have been barred. and who are still allowed to buy and sell dogs on this UKC website. Yet my friend has done nothing wrong and isnt allowed to register his pup. This man has spent alot of money at UKC hunts over the last few years, and even though he is not a big name hunter he shouldnt be treated in this manner.

He recieved his 6-generation pedigree on her before he was told that her registration was no good. Will UKC send him a refund on it, and the Performance Pup fee?

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 01-28-2007 08:52 PM:

boy

that ain't right,was the breeder notified before or after he sold the pup. if before, he might have to go after the breeder for a refund...

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-28-2007 08:55 PM:

My friend kept the pup. His old female only had 1 puppy off this stud and he kept it. I guess its a good thing or he would be out a whole lot of money.

Posted by on 01-28-2007 08:56 PM:

I think this one is between your friend and the stud owner. It is on the stud owner to make it as right as possible. I really can't see where UKC is to blame for this.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-28-2007 09:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I think this one is between your friend and the stud owner. It is on the stud owner to make it as right as possible. I really can't see where UKC is to blame for this.

Maybe so, but the breeding and the birth of the pup took place before the owner was barred. Is the rule for barred persons not that the barred individual can sell any dog registered to him/her before the date of barring?

Why should it be different for the breeder when the breeder is in good standing with UKC?

Posted by on 01-28-2007 09:29 PM:

Russel, if the breeding and birth both took place BEFORE the stud owner was barred, then I agree, UKC should darn sure register the pup. Are you sure you have all your facts straight on this one? I can't see why UKC would refuse to register a pup that was bred and born before the barring took place unless there is more to it than just that.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-28-2007 09:35 PM:

I was at my friends house about an hour after the pup was born, but i guess we'll have to see what date UKC assigns the barred individual. In any case the breeding took place before the barring. What is really wrong is that even thought the pup cannot be UKC registered, the stud owner is allowed to transfer his ownership. It will not affect my friend decision to keep the pup. He will just have to get used to PKC hunts i guess.

Posted by Rip on 01-28-2007 09:38 PM:

I think that after the stud dogs ownership is transfered then your friends pup can be registered as the sire would no longer belong to a barred individual.

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-28-2007 09:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
I think that after the stud dogs ownership is transfered then your friends pup can be registered as the sire would no longer belong to a barred individual.

That would be great, IF the stud owner would decide to go that route. I doubt he will considering the stud is also a PKC S.S. sire.

Posted by Latham1467 on 01-29-2007 12:27 AM:

Russell, Able had another Plus Point Cast Win on Friday Night so far he's had a plus point cast wins at Grand American and Winter Classic just thought i would share

Posted by chris baker on 01-29-2007 01:17 AM:

Sorry to hear about your situation. I had a little problem with some papers on my dog from stuff that happened 12 years before the papers were taken. My dog was 5 at the time. He wasn't even thought of at the time of the wrong doing but my papers were taken. As far as transfering ownership, I don't think the breded can register a pup or dog as long a he or she is barred but if the pup was born before the date of barring then there should be no problem. I was at the finals of the world hunt when my buddy tried to get his puppy papers and they told him about my dog. I didn't even know yet. As far as I am conserned they took a pretty good dog that would have been stud material and ruined him. Good luck and I hope your friend gets his papers.

Posted by redneck_girl on 01-29-2007 12:00 PM:

Re: UKC, barred stud owner....

quote:
Originally posted by Russell Boyette
A good friend of mine bred to a stud a few months ago. When he went to register his pup he was told that the B&T female couldnt be registered due to her sire's owner has recently been barred from UKC. My friend had nothing to due with the circumstances of the stud owner being barred, yet he is being punished for it. What can be done in this situation. I think he has been wronged unjustly. I see plenty of people on this forum who have been barred. and who are still allowed to buy and sell dogs on this UKC website. Yet my friend has done nothing wrong and isnt allowed to register his pup. This man has spent alot of money at UKC hunts over the last few years, and even though he is not a big name hunter he shouldnt be treated in this manner.

He recieved his 6-generation pedigree on her before he was told that her registration was no good. Will UKC send him a refund on it, and the Performance Pup fee?

Here's another good question, say I breed my two hounds, have pups, and go to register them. I find out that an owner of one of the hounds 4 generations back from my sire or dam gets barred, does that mean I can no longer breed said hound? That makes no sense. I can't control what others do, or don't do to get barred.
There must be some sort of mix up with this other fella, I can't see UKC punishing one for someone elses mistake...??
Hope your friend gets this all figured out. It would be a shame for him not to be able to register his pup, and it turn out to be a great hound.

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Posted by coondogs704 on 01-29-2007 04:01 PM:

Why would UKC issure a six generation pedigree on the pup, and then retract its validity? I would have your friend call UKC with all the the dates (date of breeding, whelping, etc.) in order and try to work this out.

If the stud dog owner truly did breed to the female while he was barred from UKC, and never let the dam owner know, that was wrong! He should have volunteered that information. So, he should refund the stud fee.

On another note, if the puppy turns out great, single register it as a black and tan in UKC down the line. If it still has it's PKC papers, enjoy that registry for the meantime.

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Posted by chris baker on 01-30-2007 02:19 AM:

My dog was five I think when they took my papers back and it was two generations back that the wrong doing was done. I had nothing to do with it and my dogs mom and her dad and mom were long dead at the time. My papers were taken and open spots put on them and I had no hand in it or any way to stop it. The bad thing is there are dogs that are supposed to be littermates to my dogs dam that still have a full set of papers. I talked to one guy about breeding to him lately and he is breeding to a dog with the same pedigree as mine on the bottom side and that male still is pr bred with a full pedigree.

Posted by wayne f on 01-30-2007 03:08 AM:

chris

did they take your hounfx papers or did they take them and delete the houbd in his paers that were wrong'
now this other case it;s a performance bred pup so dna should be on file and parentage known or was the stud with bad papers

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Posted by ALLGRANDMAN on 01-30-2007 05:36 AM:

If you think ukc is going to help your freind register his dog I will be suprised. I am suprised they did actually give the stud owner punishment they need to start cleaning up the hunts around my area and bar some handlers and judges from what I can tell falsifying papers is the only thing they punish anyone for.

Posted by chris baker on 01-30-2007 11:37 PM:

They took the papers and took PR off my dogs title and removed his grand sire on the bottom side and his great grand sire and dam and put open on the papers. The top half of his papers on the bottom side is all open. Also all of his pups they took Pr off them and put open on their papers also. His grand pups will be PR again but it takes a while to get two generations fixed unless you just breed to breed dogs. The bad thing is from what I could see they didn't even try to find out the dogs that should be on my papers. I don't think any action was taken against the two people involved either. They said the only way to fix it would be for me to pay for a forensic DNA test on some dead dogs and show positive proff who the sire was. It was a bad deal and it seemed like there was no help for an inosent person.

Posted by chris baker on 01-30-2007 11:39 PM:

I did get the papers back and got to keep my ch grnite degree but no one wants to breed to a dog that has 3/4 papers. His sire was dna and so was his dam.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-30-2007 11:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by chris baker
They took the papers and took PR off my dogs title and removed his grand sire on the bottom side and his great grand sire and dam and put open on the papers. The top half of his papers on the bottom side is all open. Also all of his pups they took Pr off them and put open on their papers also. His grand pups will be PR again but it takes a while to get two generations fixed unless you just breed to breed dogs. The bad thing is from what I could see they didn't even try to find out the dogs that should be on my papers. I don't think any action was taken against the two people involved either. They said the only way to fix it would be for me to pay for a forensic DNA test on some dead dogs and show positive proff who the sire was. It was a bad deal and it seemed like there was no help for an inosent person.

Was this over the Sparetime Spanky/Spanky II deal?

He has asked UKC for an official date for the barring of the stud owner but has recieved no answer. Im sure its going to be one of those deals that the info cant be revealed.

These are the things im not crazy about with UKC. Seems like it takes forever to get an answer on anything.

Posted by chris baker on 01-31-2007 01:24 AM:

Yes it was the Spanky deal. The thing that bothers me the most is that the dogs that are supposed to be littermates to my dogs mom still have a full pedigree. I guess I don't know all the facts or what ever but yes it was like nothing could be revealed or that they didn't want to try to help the situation. They even told me they could not get in touch with the two involved and I had them both on the phone in a few hours. It didn't do me any good but oh well. The bad thing is it was almost 4 years ago and still gets the best of me everytime I think about it.

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