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-- Lay-up Artist (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=122211)

Lay-up Artist

I have seen some hounds in my time that never seem to hit a track but tree coons constantly. These dogs were not silent mouth either I had seen/heard them run a track many times. I remeber one night in paticular it was real wet out the dog treed when we put the bang to old chubby he was bone dry we knew the coon was laying up. It just seems to me that some dogs posess a knack for treeing lay-up coons but I do not understand what makes them such an expert in this area anyone got any advise or knowledge in this area.

well

I have always felt it was because the dog used the wind alot when trying to find a coon. Even seems like they hunt into the wind.
Most dogs seem to drop thier head and go until they come across a coon track.
Where as a layup dog seems to be moving with his head up. Almost walking on its tip toes. Working the wind is what i say its doing.
However, ALOT of people make the mistake or dont know the differance between a true layup dog and a silent dog.

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I think V&MDplottdogs hit it right on the nail head. I owned a dog once that was a true lay-up dog. Dog would open real well when working a track, but I've seen this dog many a time actually rear up and walk on its back legs with his nose stuck up in the air. When you saw this it wasn't long before he was treed. Alot of times when he would tree a lay-up he would just sit down and got to treeing, not actually showing one particular tree. When you shined around above him you would find a coon on one of the limbs above him. When he trailed a coon he would tree with feet on the wood, bellied up to it. This dog was a lot of fun to hunt!

John,

That is the first time I've heard someone talk about a coonhound winding on hind limbs! It was Cool to hear! My greyhound has always winded that way! In his case it means BIG prey or predator(hackles will come up then)... he does not have interest in a tree of course.... What is REALLY funny is if he winds something and the bluetick is treeing on it he does NOT "Get" why the bluetick is acting like such a moron jumping up on a tree or fence etc... and he will NOT look up! He will be winding but not be aware of the Tree!
I just found it exciting to know a coonhound would go up like a greyhound!
I will leave winding and lay up abilities to the pros here but I do know there are breeders who DO concentrate on that ability in their lines.
Happy Hunting,Heather
PS What type was the hound you spoke of?

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Re: John,

quote:

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Originally posted by BIGCASTLEDAWGS
That is the first time I've heard someone talk about a coonhound winding on hind limbs! It was Cool to hear! My greyhound has always winded that way! In his case it means BIG prey or predator(hackles will come up then)... he does not have interest in a tree of course.... What is REALLY funny is if he winds something and the bluetick is treeing on it he does NOT "Get" why the bluetick is acting like such a moron jumping up on a tree or fence etc... and he will NOT look up! He will be winding but not be aware of the Tree!
I just found it exciting to know a coonhound would go up like a greyhound!
I will leave winding and lay up abilities to the pros here but I do know there are breeders who DO concentrate on that ability in their lines.
Happy Hunting,Heather
PS What type was the hound you spoke of?

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I have hunted 1 strain of hounds in 30 years of coonhuntin that I called Lay-up experts. EVERYONE, read that EVERYONE, was sired by NTCH CH HAMILTONS BLUE BOY TEN. I owned 8 dogs off of him out of 5 different females. About 1/2 of them would run a track also, the other 1/2 never even tried. They ran into the wind like a bird dog and crossed the timber from side to side checking the wind. Pretty soon they had 1 pinpointed and they would rear up on there hind legs and locate. They treed at the end of where they could smell him in the wind. Some times they were a tree or 2 off, but they would be looking right were the coon was sitting.

The 1/2 that ran tracks also, were out of females who were exceptional track dogs. On lay-ups they treed where they could wind him, if they ran a track they treed where he went up. Belly on the tree treedogs when they tracked, on there butts when they laid him up.

When you took into account for the trees that they were 1 or 2 off, they were almost 100% accurate. They were always looking at a coon when it was a lay-up, they just might not be able to smell him on the exact tree he was in. They treed where they could wind him.


Up until this snow we just got, this was the driest its been in over 20 years around here. Just laid tracks were bad, old tracks didn't exist. The dogs I have been hunting finally got the picture to pick there heads up and they would find coon. I wouldn't call them experts yet, but they treed several lay-ups in the first 2 weeks of season. Hopefully they keep using there brains as much as there nose when the tracking is better. Time will tell.


Show me another Blue Boy Ten and I will buy a kennel full of gyps to breed him too. Funny thing was I had several out of his more famous brothers, and didn't care for any of them.

Keith!

If you EVER get a chance to snap a picture I would LOVE to see it! Sadly TopGun is getting too old to do it... I think he still has One good leg...LOL... So I have NO pix of him doing it. I would LOVE to see a coonhound do it!!! The greyhounds do it also for sight, being sighthounds but to see him do it AT NIGHT was awesome...TILL the hackles were up...I ran like a baby...It was a BIG yote... LOL I AM a Baby but turn the flashlight on for a moment before I ran! Hey, Unarmed... didn't want a dog-yote fight .... OK... I was just scared in my own back yard...LOL...
This is awesome! Maye some dayI'll get to see one of our coonhounds do this out in the woods! It would make my day (night!) Thanks!!!! Heather

"like a bird dog" is so right on the money. I have a male Bluetick that has treed both coon and fisher during the middle of the day, when you unsnap in the daylight he runs around with his head up. He starts close and courses left to right into the wind, then will start running a straight line up to a tree..check it, and then start treeing. he hasnt really been hunted hard at night..he's more of a pet than anything..lives right in the house. I'm currently looking for a nice tree-minded female to breed him to.

I have hunted for years and never seen this until recently. I bought the CHOPPIN AXE dog that Gary Woods owned and have actually seen him tree this kind of coon. There is a big diffrence in a dog fallen treed and actually treeing a lay-up. I think people mistake one for the other sometimes. But like you all said there is no mistaking it when you see it.

Joe, I feel like "some have it ,and some don't" that's what separates the above average and the average hound. Ask the man at Reed Creek Kennels about "GRANNY" she was a pro at it.

Take care Joe.

Perry Keown

Re: well

quote:

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Originally posted by Va&MDPlottDogs
I have always felt it was because the dog used the wind alot when trying to find a coon. Even seems like they hunt into the wind.
Most dogs seem to drop thier head and go until they come across a coon track.
Where as a layup dog seems to be moving with his head up. Almost walking on its tip toes. Working the wind is what i say its doing.
However, ALOT of people make the mistake or dont know the differance between a true layup dog and a silent dog.

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Hussler

bred Blueticks were fantastic lay-up dogs..Seen some that could wind a track while on the lead from as far away as 100 feet. They knew how to get that nose in the sky !!!

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Tollivers Black Oak Ace is the best I've seen treeing lay-ups. That black dog will kill you when coon aren't moving!

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this dog right here is the best lay up dog ive ever hunted or owned very good at winding them as well

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I have seen several generations wind coon from one hill,run across the valley & fall treed. I have seen them same dogs run down one side of a river windin like they are smellin a cigar & pretty soon they are on the other side "Treed"!!

Seen some you couldn't force into runnin a coon in the corn for any length of time 'cause they knew there where coon settin up around the outside.Some may call that lazy but to me thats intelligence & also breeding stock.

I was pretty fortunate my first registered dog was a true master of treein settin coon & another that I idolized "Dual GrCh Adametz's Lil Bruiser was one of them that his picture could have been under the deffinition in the encyclopedia.The 2 bred together produced my "Toad" dog.

Then there was "Lukes" contributions & then the table was set.All I have ever hauled where dogs like this. For over 25 years that has been the common goal amongst a close knit group of "Freinds" to continue to perfect this quality.

Don't get me wrong not all are capable of this but there are individuals that do & by utilizing them we have gottin more consistency.

If you have never had the pleasure of hunting or owning a hound like that you don't know what your missin out on. Nothing like a dog opening up with a locate & fallin treed,especially when your in a hunt.Then cold trail the next one.

I have a 7 month old pup that has winded from one hill to another & found the tree with ease.Thats what I want,head up workin the thermal's instead of suckin up leaves,plus they don't wear the hair off their muzzle!!

Hey Joe

You still hangin round the UKC pages? Aint heard from you in along while.

Bigcastledawgs, sorry I didnt reply sooner but our pnone has been out due to storm. The dog I owned was a Walker dog. He was the best pleasure dog I ever owned. He was just a local bred dog that went back to a lot of the old strain of walker dogs that were recognized as top hounds back in the 60's.

quote:

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Originally posted by john r. kincaid
I think V&MDplottdogs hit it right on the nail head. I owned a dog once that was a true lay-up dog. Dog would open real well when working a track, but I've seen this dog many a time actually rear up and walk on its back legs with his nose stuck up in the air. When you saw this it wasn't long before he was treed. Alot of times when he would tree a lay-up he would just sit down and got to treeing, not actually showing one particular tree. When you shined around above him you would find a coon on one of the limbs above him. When he trailed a coon he would tree with feet on the wood, bellied up to it. This dog was a lot of fun to hunt!

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Heather,


Here is a couple pics of a dog standing on there hind legs winding. This dog is not a lay up dog though. She needs to run a track to tree a coon, but on cold tracks she will sometimes be standing off the tree a little bit winding. Her grandmother was a good lay-up dog though. I remember my dad saying about one certain hunt where he took her through the winter a few days after a big snow storm, she treed 3 or 4 coons in that one spot. They had been layed up at least 3 days because there wasn't a track on the ground.

The dog I have right now he is not a lay up dog, but he will tree a lay up the odd time.

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My dog does the same as mentioned above. He gives mouth on a track, locates, then settles with a steady chop. Sometimes he just hits the tree with nothing but the chop. I didn't understand what the difference was until I saw him stand up on his hind legs and break into the chop. He was away from the tree and barking up under the coon which was out on a limb. You're right it is fun to hunt with a dog capable of doing this even if......dare I say it on this board....it's a Mt. Cur.
Hopm

In the blue dogs, the old Hammer II dogs had this quality. I have been breeding on those lines to keep it. It is what makes a difference in a good or really good dog. Mine ca run a coon to catch or just fall treed out the blue. We call it snatching a coon out of thin air. Most dogs don't even tree much with them when they wind one. Doesn't make mine better than anyone else's, just what I like in a hound. You can tree coon when nothing is moving.

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roeders pongo, son of minklers kansas thunder, bad frosty night, that sucker will go up to a woods stick his nose up and the coon could be sittin in the back and he isnt gona make one peep until hes sittin underneath it,, not silent, just a layup king

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Used to have a nite champion dog..... could run the hottest track,,, the coldest..... and have seen her do the hind leg walkin....watch her go from tree to tree and fall treed .. and ona nite were no dog is opening,,,,,,, mark it down when she opened it was tree!

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