UKC Forums - Rules Question--Something to Ponder

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-- Rules Question--Something to Ponder (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=117873)

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 10-31-2006 04:19 PM:

Rules Question--Something to Ponder

Say we draw out on a four dog cast. I strike for 100 you strike for 75. Right off the bat I tree my dog on a hard tap and he moves on. I take 125- we get a split tree situation where we've both got the coon. You've got 200+. I've got a 100+. The next drop you strike for 100 I strike for 25 mine honors another dog for 75 and we've got a coon. Yours is split on a circle tree. This is the way the hunt ends. You've got 200+ 225 circle. I've got 325+ 125-.

Well, if you said you win the cast you are correct.

I've scored on 2 coons to your 1 and overcame a minus how is this right?

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Posted by jda on 10-31-2006 04:26 PM:

tyler i believe it is called rules....might not be fair but thats the way it is for now.....

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Posted by mulerider on 10-31-2006 04:37 PM:

your dog (or you) made a mistake and took 125-. The other dog(handler) didn't make any mistakes. Simple enough isn't it. I watched a guy score 750+ points one night in 90 minutes and then treed two slicks and went out the back door. The dog that won the cast had 125+ but didn't make any mistakes. Quit belly aching and take the loss. Sounds to me like it was more handler erroe than dog error. JMO

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Posted by Russell Boyette on 10-31-2006 06:25 PM:

You had more minus and less strike points. You were beat every way you look at it. Just a bad luck deal. When you tree on a locate it happens. Better lucjk next time.

quote:
The next drop I strike for 25 mine honors another dog for 75 and we've got a coon.

Im not trying to make you mad, but this is the way i look at it.

His dog splits from yours twice and has a coon and a circle.

Your dog leaves a tree, trees one coon, and backs another dog that treed a coon.(i wouldnt count that as a coon my dog treed pleasure hunting, would you?)

So, in reality,

His dog treed a coon, and a circle.

Your dog treed a coon and left a tree.

So who deserved the win?

I lost a cast Saturday night in which my dog tree the only coon we looked at all night, and was beat by a dog eith 2 circle trees. My dog stepped of the tree and walked about 10 feet and put his nose to the ground, but turned and went right back to knockin the top out. I founf the coonn and took my minus. There is a hunt almost every night of the week. Dont let a bad break get you down.

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Posted by Jason Miller on 10-31-2006 09:17 PM:

We are out there to tree coons. Should the first tie break rule have something to do with treeing coons?

I have never liked the UKC tie break setup, but it is their rules. Hunt by them or go to another registry.

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Posted by blueticker on 10-31-2006 11:04 PM:

Lets say the KC Chiefs rack up 250 russing yards and 300 passing yards but fail to get he ball in the end zone and totally kicks Denvers butt. Denver on the other hand has a total of 200 yards but kicks a field goal to win the game. Why should they win the game?

Posted by huntingwalkers9 on 11-01-2006 01:42 AM:

because they scored duhhh

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Posted by huntingwalkers9 on 11-01-2006 01:44 AM:

i've

i've seen a high school football game where a team had like -130yds rushing and 0 yds passing and the other team had like 200 yds rushing and 250 yards passing...

the one with negative sacked the quarter back for saftey and won the game

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Posted by KPond on 11-01-2006 02:40 AM:

Tyler,
you didn't tree your dog on a hard "tap". You treed your dog and she LEFT THE TREE!!! Get over it little guy.

Posted by Tyler Benedict on 11-01-2006 09:40 AM:

Ok where to begin.....LOL! First off this is all hypothetical. I'll be the last one to complain when I get beat by the rules and this is UKC's version of the tie breaking rule. I just don't agree with it.

Mulerider-- Like Jason Miller said the name of the game is treeing coons. So if I make a bad call like the one I stated I'm minused 125. So that means I'm probably gonna have to score on one more coon than you. Either that or hope that you or your dog messes up. So the way I see it this rule penalizes you twice.

Russell-- First things first. You are not going to make me mad by giving me your opinion on this topic. That's why I posted it in the first place. Now, furthermore, you must have misread my description of how this hypothetical hunt went. Not that the strike points are even an issue. I believe they are the third tie breaker. But in this cast i've got a total of 125+ strike points the other dog has a total of 75+ strike points. How does the other dog have me on strike points? Anyway. Now this is a competition hunt not a pleasure hunt. As long as the dog is there within 5 minutes of another dog treed the dog will receive plus points. He's landed under 2 coon the other dog was under 1 coon. There's just something about the tie breaking rule that doesn't hold water.

Mr. Ken "Duke" Pond-- This is my story and I can tell it how I want to. LOL!! Oh, by the way. Has your wife let you out of the house to play with the dogs lately? And get over it little guy is what I'll be telling you the next time Ole Squaw trees one of those grinners!!!!LOL

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Posted by Hawk32 on 11-01-2006 04:55 PM:

Tyler

Just think how the hunts would be different if you took out the handler equation. Come up with some hunt senarios there. How's the woody dog doing? You never did call me back by the way.lol

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Posted by jackbob42 on 11-01-2006 05:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Benedict

Mulerider-- Like Jason Miller said the name of the game is treeing coons. So if I make a bad call like the one I stated I'm minused 125. So that means I'm probably gonna have to score on one more coon than you. Either that or hope that you or your dog messes up. So the way I see it this rule penalizes you twice.

Instead of gambling on calling him and just call him for what he does , then you wouldn't have had to worry about taking minus. However , if the dog did actually leave a tree , then he should loose to a dog that doesn't.
Heck , if guys didn't get penalized for gambling on a locate , everyone would be saying " I made a bad call , you can't minus him for that ".
The next thing you know , we'd all be breeding to GrNtCh's that won't stay treed ! LOL

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Posted by Jeremy Long on 11-01-2006 06:53 PM:

Calling a dog treed is treed. Doesnt matter if its 3 seconds or 4'59". Either way the tree is left, more than likely because the dog knows he is wrong or has big ears or has a grinner.

My $.02 is that this dog should lose to a dog who made 0 mistakes and is more accurate given that it has come down to a tiebreaker.

Hot nosed pop up dogs are typically less accurate, I prefer to error the other direction.

I agree with the rule.

Posted by Jason Miller on 11-01-2006 07:36 PM:

The only time I have ever been tied in a UKC hunt this is the way the hunt went.

first drop- I draw 125 tree minus. My dog left the tree. The other three dogs have the coon. There are three dogs at the tree, but one of them is withdrawn from the cast at this point. My dog comes back in and I get 25 minus.

The dog leading the cast has 150 plus. We go to the next drop, and my dog shuts the other dogs out 225 plus on a coon the dog leading gets 75 plus. The next drop same scenario I get first and a first on a coon, but the dog in the lead gets 75 agian.

The other guys in the cast are talking about awesome mine looked, and thought I had won the cast. I informed them at the truck that the other dog in the cast had won. They could not believe it.

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Posted by COONDOGS101 on 11-02-2006 05:36 AM:

WOW

THIS MAY BE THE BEST ONE I SEEN YET.....LMAO! Something to ponder about?? More like something to laugh about!.!.! LMBBO! Get a rulebook man.

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Posted by Tyler Benedict on 11-02-2006 09:23 AM:

Bob Brooks-- If I can't tree a dog on its locate I don't want it. Simple as that. But, that's the kind of dog I like and, you're not gonna change my mind. In my opinion if my dog trees more coon than yours does, I should win the cast. And, what does your statement and I quote "Heck, if guys didn't get penalized for gambling on a locate, everyone would be saying "I made a bad call, you can't minus him for that." The next thing you know, we'd all be breeding to GrNtCh's that won't stay tree." have to do with this tie-breaker rule?

Jeremy-- Man, I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree! LOL!! LIke I said earlier in this post. If my dog trees more coon than your dog I should win the cast.

Ron Schilling-- I'm not on here bashing you, so I would appreciate you extending the same courtesy to me. If you would like to discuss this topic a little further my phone numbers are at he bottom of every post I make. Thanks, and have nice day!

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Posted by SilverRockTW on 11-02-2006 09:37 AM:

Not to make anybody mad or anything but this is simple. If you don't like the UKC rules and don't think they are fair. Just don't hunt in UKC hunts and you won't ever have to worry about disagreeing with the rules or them being unfair at all. Just my opinion.

Cole Vanover

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Posted by Tyler Benedict on 11-02-2006 10:05 AM:

I'm not going to quit hunting in UKC hunts just because I disagree with one of there rules. I like UKC for the most part. My only contention with the tie breaker set up is and again I'll para-phrase what Jason Miller said. Don't you think that the first tie breaker should have something to do with treeing coons?

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Posted by jackbob42 on 11-02-2006 04:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tyler Benedict
Bob Brooks-- If I can't tree a dog on its locate I don't want it. Simple as that. But, that's the kind of dog I like and, you're not gonna change my mind. In my opinion if my dog trees more coon than yours does, I should win the cast. And, what does your statement and I quote "Heck, if guys didn't get penalized for gambling on a locate, everyone would be saying "I made a bad call, you can't minus him for that." The next thing you know, we'd all be breeding to GrNtCh's that won't stay tree." have to do with this tie-breaker rule?

Well , because if the minus points don't affect them , then everybody would be gambling trying to get that first tree.

If you won't own a dog you can tree on it's locate , then it wasn't a " bad call " , your dog just srewed up and moved. Take your minus.

Dogs ( or handlers ) have to be held accountable for their minus points.
How else would you do it?

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Posted by GNeal on 11-02-2006 04:47 PM:

Sounds like one of those bad breaks everyone is always talking about.

GNeal

Posted by COONDOGS101 on 11-02-2006 05:33 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GNeal
Sounds like one of those bad breaks everyone is always talking about.

GNeal

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