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-- accuracy of papers (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=114136)

accuracy of papers

I rarely post on here, much more of an observer..

I was reading the all grand post above this one and almost chimed in, but held back due to the fact it would probably ignite an already bubbling cauldron.

there is such a resistance to single registered dogs from folks who believe their dogs PR status is accurate..

Certainly a great many are, but I believe many more are not..

How often do you suppose an excellent prospect has had a set of papers filed that belonged to a much better bred pup who didn't make it?

Or a bitch of one breed was backed up to a stud of another to import a needed shot of quickness and tree power? But old Rover of the same breed was listed as the sire?

I think the DNA profiling that's being put into play will help, but in the long run will it hurt? Hurt as in the unwillingness to import something you need to make your hounds better? Just some thoughts, good luck with the dogs

you are

so right larry !!!
but in todays world everyone is for the all grand pedigree's !
but i have yet to see paper's tree a coon lol ! i would say there is a lot of dogs out there carring blood that go's back to a differant line or even a differant breed ? then whats on the "papers" all a guy can do is breed a coondog to a coondog and hope for the best !

__________________
OAKRIDGE ENGLISH KENNEL'S
BREEDING FOR THE FUTURE
since 1990
Marshall Curtis 517-260-2583

JUST DOG'S THAT TREE COON'S !

IMO you would be lucky if any of them are accurate for five generations. It is not always fraud either. I learned through DNA that accidents happen.

__________________
Perry Metcalf.. Go Big Blue !

Larry you a very right in your post I agree.
I have yet to see a set of papers load up when they are told to let alone tree a coon

__________________
Curtis Beyer
Camden Beyer

616-262-2785
Twin Oaks Kennels
SPIKE BEYER, HIS LEGACY LIVES ON!
PR' Twin Oak's CrossCut BoZo R.I.P.
Twin Oak's NextGen. Jewel
**TEAM TIMBER**
COONDOG UP*ENGLISH STYLE*
CoonDog Mafia

You are absolutely right. The set of papers that come with a puppy are only as good as the integrity of the breeders. I would rather tell the total truth on all hounds than hurt my reputation. Its better to be absolutely honest. No hound is worth my seat in Heaven. Unfortunately this isn't the way many people operate. Amy

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"The scientific name for an animal that refuses to run from or fight its enemies is lunch." Michael Friedman

Even if they are telling the truth, accidents do happen.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hiphop
Even if they are telling the truth, accidents do happen.

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A female can have pups from two different males.

quote:

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Originally posted by Hiphop
A female can have pups from two different males.

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What if the owner didn't see the other????????

Didn't know????

A female gets out of the pen, wham bam thankya mam. You were young one time, you know how it is.

If one of our girls were to get out then the pups would be considered mutts. Then I would give the pups to young people to hunt. I sure wouldn't register, lie about, or sell them as purebreds. I would also let the female have the pups. I'm leary about using any of the shots to stop them. I've heard too much bad stuff on them.

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"The scientific name for an animal that refuses to run from or fight its enemies is lunch." Michael Friedman

Re: accuracy of papers

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Hall
I rarely post on here, much more of an observer..

I was reading the all grand post above this one and almost chimed in, but held back due to the fact it would probably ignite an already bubbling cauldron.

there is such a resistance to single registered dogs from folks who believe their dogs PR status is accurate..

Certainly a great many are, but I believe many more are not..

How often do you suppose an excellent prospect has had a set of papers filed that belonged to a much better bred pup who didn't make it?

Or a bitch of one breed was backed up to a stud of another to import a needed shot of quickness and tree power? But old Rover of the same breed was listed as the sire?

I think the DNA profiling that's being put into play will help, but in the long run will it hurt? Hurt as in the unwillingness to import something you need to make your hounds better? Just some thoughts, good luck with the dogs

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__________________
Bill Fulmer

Member of the NAADP

Track and Tree with Accuracy and Determination.

accidents can happen. I know of one dog that got bred from out side of the pen by backing up in the corner.

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Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

well i was going to keep my mouth shut , however , i wouldnt be me if i were to do that. you are sooooooo correct when some folks place papers on a dog that do not belong . i am one from experiance who at by pure luck ran across another persons dog, who happens to have a kennel with a good line of dogs all comin from good dogs . this dog in question i owned from a pup at 6 months old . never been bred till she was 3 and i bred her then sold her at age of 6. to get to the point , this guy in question happened to have my dog in his pedigree's saying she was the mother of his hi powered dogs . i emailed him and gave my phone number , told him he best not post his add on anything and let me know of it . because his dogs are not what they actualy are since i owned the female and she was fixed before i sold her and her pups all died but 2 of which i kept and then later they died on hunting accidents . so fellows you just never know, papers to me have never ever meant didly , just a referance tool , but by golly if you gonna say they out of a certain dog you best know what you are talking about . happy hunting all and take care.

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unless you are the lead dog the scenery never changes

The real issue here has little to do with dogs and their papers and EVERYTHING to do with a person's honesty.

There are HONEST ways to bring outside blood into most breeds, to have a litter with multiple sires, and so on. DNA testing, used correctly, is the tool of an honest person will help them keep this all sorted out.

However, we all know there are people that are NOT honest. They will get their buddies to be the judge, they will be honest 10% of the time just so they can fool 90% of the people and when confronted with their mistakes, all the classic signs of a crook will come bubbling out.

So, when you buy a pup or breed a stud, really you need to select the people, before you select the dogs.

__________________

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quote:

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Originally posted by John D
The real issue here has little to do with dogs and their papers and EVERYTHING to do with a person's honesty.

There are HONEST ways to bring outside blood into most breeds, to have a litter with multiple sires, and so on. DNA testing, used correctly, is the tool of an honest person will help them keep this all sorted out.

However, we all know there are people that are NOT honest. They will get their buddies to be the judge, they will be honest 10% of the time just so they can fool 90% of the people and when confronted with their mistakes, all the classic signs of a crook will come bubbling out.

So, when you buy a pup or breed a stud, really you need to select the people, before you select the dogs.

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__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Larry, What ever happened to Boone and Mike and are there any pups out of either of them? I've got a young female has 3 shots of Blaster in her 3 generation ped, what a TREE DOG and LOUD. Thanks Doug

Doug,

I raised two litters of pups out Boone, Mike was never bred.

There is a 5 yr old male dog about 3 miles from me that's all that's left of either litter. I kept two pups and sent them to IA to run loose and both were killed at a young age.

The old boy really stamped his pups, mouth and treeing ability it's a shame I never promoted him, but. The neighbor kids actually raised the litter, they hunted Boone the last 5 yrs of his life and killed a boatload of coon with the old boy.

I have hardly hunted until I bought a pup last year..He's making a pretty nice dog and I'm hunting a bit.

I'm taking him to MI Friday to a friends house who will hunt him thru Oct..


give me a call or stop by sometime..

LH

quote:

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Originally posted by John D
The real issue here has little to do with dogs and their papers and EVERYTHING to do with a person's honesty.

There are HONEST ways to bring outside blood into most breeds, to have a litter with multiple sires, and so on. DNA testing, used correctly, is the tool of an honest person will help them keep this all sorted out.

However, we all know there are people that are NOT honest. They will get their buddies to be the judge, they will be honest 10% of the time just so they can fool 90% of the people and when confronted with their mistakes, all the classic signs of a crook will come bubbling out.

So, when you buy a pup or breed a stud, really you need to select the people, before you select the dogs.

---

__________________
Bill Fulmer

Member of the NAADP

Track and Tree with Accuracy and Determination.