UKC Forums - New Hunt Format - (re:slams) Will Clubs Survive ?

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »
Show all 68 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- New Hunt Format - (re:slams) Will Clubs Survive ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928513064)

Posted by Toad Hill on 12-18-2018 06:08 PM:

New Hunt Format - (re:slams) Will Clubs Survive ?

* Just a discussion here and looking for thoughts and ideas from others who are trying to run a successful club *

I honestly dont see entry's at the local level in our area increasing much if any at all . However , I hope i'm wrong !!!
As far as Money goes ......
If a club chooses to have Slam hunts the hunter wins and the club is gonna lose.
If the club does not have slam hunts the club will win and the hunter loses ( no money just a win toward title like always been) . If the money is supposed to draw the hunters in then clubs like mine are gonna have to draw way more than 10 dogs to make any kind of profit to be able to keep the doors open.

So Here's an example for my club holding a $20 slam hunt.

10 dogs enter @ $20 entry fee
Income $200
Club gets $90
Hunter awarded $110

Club expenses :
Bldg rent is $50
$2 per dog= $20
Ukc Hunt fee = $25
Total = $95
Club goes in the hole $5 for this particular hunt .
If we do not average better than this example above all year combined our club LOSES .

Then what ?

Im not trying to be smart and I know UKC is and has always been for the clubs... Im being serious and looking for answers.
Everybody supposedly wanting the $$$$$$$ . So if we dont offer the slam hunt ,the hunters will not show up anymore ? But if they do show up our club is going to have to draw ALOT of them to stay afloat !!
I guess everyone else's clubs are drawing more than 10 dogs @ every hunt ?

Posted by wart on 12-18-2018 06:47 PM:

Clubs

No clubs can survive without enough entries Period.Ukc cannot save a club no registries can the numbers are to low most clubs are running on fumes all reg. numbers are down .The first problem is what really is a club most clubs of any kind have members and membership fees most coonhunting clubs don't and that doesn't help.Also you have to think out of the box and raise money from none competition type hunters with meat hunts and raffles and trade days etc.Entry fees at most local hunts throughout the year won't keep a club in profit there's simply not enough hunters on the local level in some areas .We all can play the blame game on something or someone but that won't help anything

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 07:05 PM:

You can continue with regular hunts as in the past. You can try a few slam hunts. You can have 1 hr hunts or 90 minute hunts or 120 minute hunts. It is all up to the clubs now. They have choices. No one knows how it will work out. But I assume that it will be different in each area or club. Even now some clubs only make money on UKC hunts, some make money on PKC hunts and some make money on both. If yours is only a small club, then your choices are either grow your club and thereby its revenue or decrease your expenses.

Posted by yadkintar on 12-18-2018 07:22 PM:

Down here they just don't like the rules that's the only thing holding them back. If you are going to play for $$$ at a high level you need modern rules !!

And I ain't setting at the clubhouse no more lol.

Tarbaby

Posted by RC-Abby on 12-18-2018 07:24 PM:

Re: Club Servival

Frist I do not belong to a club. Second I love to coon hunt. (Pleasure) I have some questions for involved club members.
Are you tied to comp. hunts only? (UKC ect.)
Does the club own a club house or renting?
Do you have active members?
How about some Good Ole Boy hunts?
Fun hunts for those of us that have the 300 to 400 yard dogs (Patch hounds)
Maybe run a ucher tournament while hunts going on?
FOOD to a confined crowd? (ham&beans Beef&noodles)

My opinion a lot of coon hunters out there and you are only collecting money from a small percentage of them. Yes you would need to make Pleasure hunt rules. Make it fun. My life is to serious now without stressing to coon hunt. At 65 I like to relax go easy. Think it was Mr. Tar stated something to this effect on forums not to long ago.

Tunnel vision will keep you on the same track always.
Just my thoughts as I read all of the posts.
Happy Hunting
Merry Christmas
Randi

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 07:32 PM:

Excellant post/idea Mr Abby. Strictly pleasure hunters are an untapped resource. PKC hunters make fun of all of the trucks in the parking lot and non-hunters sitting around at our UKC hunts. They don't realize that these are the guys that keep the club doors open. If it wasn't for them there would not be a club for them to hold their hunts at.

Every once in awhile Tarbaby will post something that makes sense if you can understand it. But you have wade through all of the B.S. to get there.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-18-2018 10:39 PM:

Re: New Hunt Format - (re:slams) Will Clubs Survive ?

quote:
Originally posted by Toad Hill
* Just a discussion here and looking for thoughts and ideas from others who are trying to run a successful club *

I honestly dont see entry's at the local level in our area increasing much if any at all . However , I hope i'm wrong !!!
As far as Money goes ......
If a club chooses to have Slam hunts the hunter wins and the club is gonna lose.
If the club does not have slam hunts the club will win and the hunter loses ( no money just a win toward title like always been) . If the money is supposed to draw the hunters in then clubs like mine are gonna have to draw way more than 10 dogs to make any kind of profit to be able to keep the doors open.

So Here's an example for my club holding a $20 slam hunt.

10 dogs enter @ $20 entry fee
Income $200
Club gets $90
Hunter awarded $110

Club expenses :
Bldg rent is $50
$2 per dog= $20
Ukc Hunt fee = $25
Total = $95
Club goes in the hole $5 for this particular hunt .
If we do not average better than this example above all year combined our club LOSES .

Then what ?

Im not trying to be smart and I know UKC is and has always been for the clubs... Im being serious and looking for answers.
Everybody supposedly wanting the $$$$$$$ . So if we dont offer the slam hunt ,the hunters will not show up anymore ? But if they do show up our club is going to have to draw ALOT of them to stay afloat !!
I guess everyone else's clubs are drawing more than 10 dogs @ every hunt ?

Our club quit having slams when it came to the realization we did better profit wise holding a regular hunt.We could charge less per entry and still show more profit per hunt.
Slams are more for the entrant than clubs bottom line due to the payout.
With the rules change and now the slam change in who gets a win and the performance point payout they make no sense.
Better sense would be that if the club really believes that a cash payout is better to draw more entrants...Е..
Pay out cash per the clubs decision of the return at a regular hunt instead of a slam.
Remember the rules were changed that a club can choose to pay cash awards.I honestly locally have not seen any club utilizing this option yet holding slams ???
Clubs can hold a Calcutta with the money hunt and take a percent of the proceeds of the auction.Say 10% or so.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Posted by Peterhunts101 on 12-18-2018 10:52 PM:

IТm new to this, what exactly are slam hunts and how do they work? What seperates them from a regular hunt?

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-18-2018 11:11 PM:

...Е...ЕЕ.SLAM ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ...REGULAR HUNT
ЕЕЕЕЕ. _____...ЕЕЕЕЕЕ... ____________

LICENSE...ЕЕ.25.00...ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ... 25.00

15DOGS @......30.00...............Е......30.00
2.00 FEE

20.00
ENTRY......Е.165.00 ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ..-0-
PAYOUT
@55%
___________________________________

TOTAL...Е...220.00 ...........................55.00
OUTLAY

---------------------------------------------------

INCOME

15 DOGS
@20.00...Е... 300.00... @15.00... 225.00
ENTRY..........................ENTRY

LESS
EXPENCES....220.00.....................55.00
_______________________________

PROFIT...Е..80.00...............ЕЕ.170.00

Easy to see you can charge less per dog
and still make a bigger profit holding regular hunts.

Go a step further and if you only draw 10 dogs at your regular hunt you still make more profit (95.00)then a slam.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-18-2018 11:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Peterhunts101
IТm new to this, what exactly are slam hunts and how do they work? What seperates them from a regular hunt?

After January 1st nothing really except the mandatory 55% cash payout requirement to entrants paying 20 or 30 to hunt.

Posted by RC-Abby on 12-18-2018 11:26 PM:

Clubs

Thank You Richard.
I believe there is money to keep clubs going. Sometimes it takes outside thoughts to get where you want to go. I know there is a lot of brain power in these clubs. After all you are coonhunters. You can make a dog track and tree so why can't you make a club profitable? Dig follow hunters Dig. UKC has spoken so you have to make it work. What would you do if your dog quit? Answer is Shock it or get a switch.
Happy Hunting
Randi

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-18-2018 11:51 PM:

Maybe some coonhunters need a jolt to get their creative juices flowing. I thought all clubs were non-profit. I never realized that they had to show a profit. As some have suggested, if they can't make money with the hunts, maybe they can think of other ways to make some money. Maybe they should have a member stand out in the driveway with a sign and a tin can. Or they could get their kids to stand out in front of Wal Mart with a sign and a coon dog. Or they could get a prize donated and have a raffle.

Posted by Peterhunts101 on 12-19-2018 12:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
...Е...ЕЕ.SLAM ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ...REGULAR HUNT
ЕЕЕЕЕ. _____...ЕЕЕЕЕЕ... ____________

LICENSE...ЕЕ.25.00...ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ... 25.00

15DOGS @......30.00...............Е......30.00
2.00 FEE

20.00
ENTRY......Е.165.00 ЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕЕ..-0-
PAYOUT
@55%
___________________________________

TOTAL...Е...220.00 ...........................55.00
OUTLAY

---------------------------------------------------

INCOME

15 DOGS
@20.00...Е... 300.00... @15.00... 225.00
ENTRY..........................ENTRY

LESS
EXPENCES....220.00.....................55.00
_______________________________

PROFIT...Е..80.00...............ЕЕ.170.00

Easy to see you can charge less per dog
and still make a bigger profit holding regular hunts.

Go a step further and if you only draw 10 dogs at your regular hunt you still make more profit (95.00)then a slam.

Why donТt we just let clubs decide the payout? That way bigger clubs who draw more entrants can payout more because they can absorb the expenses better, and the smaller clubs can payout less because theyТre drawing less entrants. The only problem I see with that is people will be more likely to go to the bigger clubs for more money, and the smaller clubs will draw less applicants and get smaller.

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-19-2018 12:10 AM:

Okay if a club don't make a profit maybe you can suggest a another way for them to pay rent.utility bills,property taxes,insurance,etc.

Or maybe like you suggested stand out side begging so we can continue to keep the doors open.
Even non-profits have to have a positive(PROFIT) income or they would go out of service too.
There are several clubs in my area that are about to close their doors because they have been running at deficits.
What do we say to them about their no profit/positive cash flow income margin????

Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-19-2018 12:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Peterhunts101
Why donТt we just let clubs decide the payout? That way bigger clubs who draw more entrants can payout more because they can absorb the expenses better, and the smaller clubs can payout less because theyТre drawing less entrants. The only problem I see with that is people will be more likely to go to the bigger clubs for more money, and the smaller clubs will draw less applicants and get smaller.

This is exactly what I am saying.
The clubs have that ability since when the rules changed I think it was 2014.
After Jan 1st. I don't really see what the big draw to hold a Slam would be except for the entrants. And any regular hunt can do the same thing without paying out 55%.
They can elect a smaller amount if they choose.

Posted by BETHLEHEM BLUES on 12-19-2018 12:36 AM:

Food for thought

I know this will never happen! So itТs just a thought. Where I live I can drive to 8 different clubs within 1-1 1/2 hours from my house, now with going & hunting at these clubs from time to time & looking at the hunt results all these clubs average 1 cast of reg. & 1 Nt Ch. 2 of each at most. It will be the same people at each club 95% of the time. So what if Ukc told each club they had to maintain certain number of entries per hunt or they would lose the privilege of holding Ukc hunts.

I would think some of if not several clubs would not make the cut, so the people that go to the clubs that may not survive would they start going to the other clubs or just stop hunting the hunts. IТm sure if I can go to this many clubs in that amount of time so could several others. Also would think this is the case in other parts of the country.

__________________
Nt Ch Yeagers Blue Lightning Bolt (Jobe X Sarah Sue)

(RIP) Nt Ch HTX Uchtman first class Jack
(RIP) Gr Nite Ch YeagerТs Wild N Wonderful Ginger

Heikki Yeager (304) 905-3585

Posted by John B.Dalton on 12-19-2018 01:18 AM:

The sport of competition hunting has gotten such a bad rap amongst a bunch of young and old not sure if it will ever rebound..Have a registered event and you will have 5-15 dogs..have a meat hunt with the biggest coon and the smallest coon and your club is in a area blessed with coonhunters you may get 20 -40 teams to hunt..As a club think outside the box if you need to generate funds...horseshoe tournys,corn hole tournys,water races if you have a pond..The hunt itself doesnt have to be the only fund raiser to keep the doors open..Most clubs can get nice hats,stickers for your truck and collect dues and still make a few bucks...Hope to see it continue for generations to come but the struggle is real.

__________________
Home Of Valley Creek Hunting Supply..Dalton Farms Softball and Misty Hollow Kennels 434-865-4868
www.valleycreekhunting.com

Posted by Chuck Allen on 12-19-2018 11:41 AM:

John B. Dalton you just might have struck a nerve there son , the 3 guys I hunted with last night love to coon hunt and I mean Love it! But one or 2 bad comp hunt experiences 20-30 years ago and they will not even go spectate with me to a comp hunt. Now they will go to a big coon contest etc. Maybe something for Shriners or St Judes but that is it.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Posted by shane_atchison on 12-19-2018 02:19 PM:

The kitchen is a good opportunity to make money. At the end our club was only drawing 2 cast, but the kitchen was still turning a profit..

__________________
Shane

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-19-2018 02:24 PM:

Oh my goodness, they are still carrying a grudge from 20-30 yrs ago? Somebody must have threatened to shoot them. I wish that I could remember what happened that long ago.

Posted by bones on 12-19-2018 04:55 PM:

Guys remember its your members that make or break a club. We are a small club don't hold a lot of hunts but we maintain the same bal. in the check book pretty steady the hunts ,the kitchen(grill in our case)lol big coon contest a raffle once in awhile. Here it seems to be more about bragging rights if my dog won more than about the money. Our club house is just a cabin nothing fancy privately owned and use is donated

__________________
cut them loose

Posted by Toad Hill on 12-19-2018 05:14 PM:

Pat -

You've hit the nail on the Head !! Thank you for mentioning what you did. If I rem correctly there was several clubs already giving away cash prizes and they were even posted in the upcoming events section in Bloodlines . Im going to have to go back and find it now to see the details on how they was conducting their events.
We are probably gonna have to go that route because the format of a Slam is not going to benefit us whatsoever .

Bones - you're right also ! - agree 100 % !

Thank you ALL for your comments and ideas

Posted by RC-Abby on 12-19-2018 05:22 PM:

Bones

That would be my definition of a coon club.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 12-19-2018 05:30 PM:

Re: Bones

quote:
Originally posted by RC-Abby
That would be my definition of a coon club.

Some lose sight of what a "club" is. When I was a kid 5 of us neighborhood boys had our own "club" complete with a clubhouse. We started out with a clubhouse on the ground built from limbs and trees we chopped down. When we had scavenged enough lumber we built a tree house clubhouse. We were as proud of our "club" as some coon clubs are today. And we didn't show a profit.

Posted by Toad Hill on 12-19-2018 07:01 PM:

Re: Re: Bones

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Some lose sight of what a "club" is. When I was a kid 5 of us neighborhood boys had our own "club" complete with a clubhouse. We started out with a clubhouse on the ground built from limbs and trees we chopped down. When we had scavenged enough lumber we built a tree house clubhouse. We were as proud of our "club" as some coon clubs are today. And we didn't show a profit.

Oh my Goodness Richard !!!!!! We arent 10 yr old boys anymore working on a tree limb budget . Of course you didnt show a profit because you didnt need to .
You obviously havent been behind the financial side of a coon club before. ? Unless you have deep pockets and can fully fund and pump money into a club of your own IT HAS to be able to make a profit in order to OPERATE .

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:17 PM.

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »
Show all 68 posts from this thread on one page