UKC Forums - Re-Cast situation question

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Posted by Nick Jennings on 06-17-2018 06:53 PM:

Re-Cast situation question

Dogs A, B, C, and D are struck in and A, B, C are declared treed. Upon scoring the tree, we step away from the tree and Dog D is barking a few hundred yards away. Handler D trees his dog immediately while A, B, C are still on the leash. Is this a leash lock (even though shine time was over and tree was scored)? Or should we have cut loose the second we heard dog D barking

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Posted by Frosty on 06-17-2018 07:16 PM:

leash locked

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Posted by DFred on 06-17-2018 07:29 PM:

Leash locked, go score D (don't have to wait 5), then all dogs can be turned loose to compete for 100 strike.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-17-2018 09:27 PM:

What if one person gets his dog turned loose just as handler of Dog D trees his dog?

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 06-17-2018 09:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What if one person gets his dog turned loose just as handler of Dog D trees his dog?

the way I've heard it said the judge has to tell you to recast the dogs and was told if you cut your dog without being told your scratched but haven't looked the rules over to find out if that's really the way it is just been told that. But if that's right and you've already been told to recast then they are cut and have five minutes to get to that tree or can go find another

Posted by Frosty on 06-17-2018 10:33 PM:

you should never turn loose till the judge tells you to and then everyone turns loose together.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-17-2018 11:06 PM:

Everyone knows that " you should" but what happens if "you don't"?

Posted by DFred on 06-17-2018 11:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Everyone knows that " you should" but what happens if "you don't"?

Implied scratch.

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Posted by Rip on 06-17-2018 11:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DFred
Implied scratch.

Bingo spot on can’t turn loos you are leash locked and if you do turn loose you are scratched

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Posted by joey on 06-18-2018 12:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
Bingo spot on can’t turn loos you are leash locked and if you do turn loose you are scratched

Cant have it both ways Rip, It says they "Must turn loose to dogs opening on trail. If they hear the dogs and the dog has not been treed yet according to your logic on handling them at the tree, they should be able to cut. Because it says they "must". They heard the dog opening so why could they not just cut loose before the guy treed the dog? Please don't take this as I'm picking at you, I'm just pointing something out. I don't see a difference in you having to be told to cut or handle. You have to wait on the judge for both of them.

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 06-18-2018 12:41 AM:

MUST be turned loose and MUST be handled

BUT not until you're told to has always been my understanding

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Posted by Rip on 06-18-2018 01:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Cant have it both ways Rip, It says they "Must turn loose to dogs opening on trail. If they hear the dogs and the dog has not been treed yet according to your logic on handling them at the tree, they should be able to cut. Because it says they "must". They heard the dog opening so why could they not just cut loose before the guy treed the dog? Please don't take this as I'm picking at you, I'm just pointing something out. I don't see a difference in you having to be told to cut or handle. You have to wait on the judge for both of them.

Joey you missed the rest. Elvis thought he had something with this the last time it came up using the same logic but Todd said the judge had to let them know it was a dog on the cast and not a house dog or something but as soon as that was determined they must be turned loose. That is where they said it was different going to the tree he should know which dogs are there by rule before hand so no reason not to handle the dogs BUT in this case have to be sure it’s dogs that are on the cast.

To be honest the only reason I remember this from so long ago is really the second thread started by Elvis stirring the pot because of the other thread about the dogs treed and the seeming inconsistency. It was about a week long dust up LOL

I have known you on here long enough to know you are not picking on me. It isn't the way we have always done it and like I said I always do it the way everyone else does just to avoid problems.

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Posted by joey on 06-18-2018 01:28 AM:

Yes but just like he needs to let them know its a dog on the cast he needs to let them know he has seen enough to be satisfied what dogs are on the tree. Its the only consistent way to do it. If guys are just handling dogs your going to have a freaking mess. Just like if they were just cutting loose as soon as they hear another dog. We have to be able to have consistency and that can only happen if the judge has complete control of dogs being handled.

Posted by Rip on 06-18-2018 01:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Yes but just like he needs to let them know its a dog on the cast he needs to let them know he has seen enough to be satisfied what dogs are on the tree. Its the only consistent way to do it. If guys are just handling dogs your going to have a freaking mess. Just like if they were just cutting loose as soon as they hear another dog. We have to be able to have consistency and that can only happen if the judge has complete control of dogs being handled.

If a judge needs more than being first to the tree to see which dogs are there he don't need to be a judge.

That aside I was surprised that they said that back then, and then I thought Elvis had a point too with him starting the thread about not turning loose but it all came back to the fact that the judge shouldn't need extra time, all he needs is to be the first at the tree which he is supposed to be by rule.

I am also fully admitting that this was BEFORE Todd and UKC stated the opinions on here were official and it was nearly 20 years ago so things could have changed but I remember it because of how Elvis came back with his question and the week long dust up it caused. It was pretty fun.

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Posted by Nick Jennings on 06-18-2018 02:20 AM:

By the time after stepping away from the tree, listened and agreed that (Dog D) was barking,... we pointed A-B-C in D's direction, and handler of Dog D treed his dog. We ended up keeping them on the leash and walking to her tree

Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-18-2018 02:35 AM:

You make it sound like you had plenty of time to unleash your dog if you wanted to.

Posted by Frosty on 06-18-2018 02:41 AM:

that was good handling of dog D.

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Posted by Mark V. on 06-18-2018 11:04 AM:

Nick Your cast was spot On Just a bad break for the cast!

Posted by RJ Burks on 06-18-2018 12:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Yes but just like he needs to let them know its a dog on the cast he needs to let them know he has seen enough to be satisfied what dogs are on the tree. Its the only consistent way to do it. If guys are just handling dogs your going to have a freaking mess. Just like if they were just cutting loose as soon as they hear another dog. We have to be able to have consistency and that can only happen if the judge has complete control of dogs being handled.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-18-2018 03:06 PM:

Would it have been good handling by Dog A's handler if he just cut him loose before Dog D's handler treed him?

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 06-18-2018 03:31 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Would it have been good handling by Dog A's handler if he just cut him loose before Dog D's handler treed him?

Not if I was judging the cast

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-18-2018 03:39 PM:

But the rule says "must".

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 06-18-2018 03:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
But the rule says "must".

And we will...just as soon as that dogs handler gets a couple seconds to see if it's treed or not.

Rule says dogs must to turned loose with dogs opening"on trail" ...so to me you have to determine if the dogs on opening on trail or treed

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-18-2018 03:56 PM:

Now that is an excellant answer.

But does "treed" mean that the dog is treeing or that the handler has called his dog treed? What if the judge determines that Dog D is treed but the handler doesn't call him treed? Can you turn your dog loose then? What if the judge applies the "obviously treed" rule/time on Dog D? Can you turn your dog loose?

Posted by yadkintar on 06-18-2018 04:38 PM:

If I know that ole boys dog is bad about not having coons I will be glad to give him enough time to tree his dog lol.

Tar

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