UKC Forums - Rewarding a Dog

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Posted by Shepherd_ on 07-31-2019 02:45 PM:

Rewarding a Dog

Best ways of rewarding a dog in the summer?

Do you guys just knock coons out to them or do you used different ways of reward?

Trying to put a little more drive in my dog. It's been about 40-50 trees since I've knocked one out. She just seems to be acting weird the last couple weeks. Not sure if she's sick or if she just needs a couple coon. I also thought about laying her up a few weeks, but hate to do that with so many hunts coming up.

She goes to the vet this week to get checked out. Something has changed in her the last couple weeks and I can't figure out what it is.

Let me know what you guys think.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-31-2019 03:02 PM:

If you have a good dog and "something" just changes, take them to the vet or just go ahead and start them on Doxy. All of the coons in the world and 4 weeks of rest won't cure them.

Posted by Sgraves on 07-31-2019 03:45 PM:

Every time I have a female act weird, she fixing to come in heat.

Posted by critter on 07-31-2019 05:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
Every time I have a female act weird, she fixing to come in heat.

That's what I was thinking.

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Posted by Autumn Clements on 07-31-2019 07:02 PM:

Mine only get fur during the season, I always just praised them up when leaving if they had the coon

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Posted by lblhunter on 08-01-2019 12:59 AM:

Back in the late 80's my brother-in-law put a coonhide on a nerf football. Would clap his hands like a rifle shot then throw hide into low branchs of tree and the dogs were all over it when it hit the ground. Course he was hunting redbones. Richard might want to try that so won't get his show dogs scarred.

Posted by TylerOSU on 08-01-2019 02:36 PM:

Work with no pay?

Would you keep going to work and not getting paid? IMO they need one every once in a while. I'd say every 15-20 coons id knock one out. That's just my thought though, every dog is different and quirky in their own way.

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 08-01-2019 02:45 PM:

I never put a coon down outside of hunting season. Most of my dogs have always treed just as well for a petting as they do for a coon. I had one that was very accurate if you did not put coons out to him and started slick treeing if you did.

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Posted by robgregory on 08-01-2019 03:32 PM:

I agree with Autumn & Bill

Coondogs aren't stupid. They live to please their owners. A good praising and petting up a dog goes lot further than you might think. Rob

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-01-2019 04:51 PM:

Re: I agree with Autumn & Bill

quote:
Originally posted by robgregory
Coondogs aren't stupid. They live to please their owners. A good praising and petting up a dog goes lot further than you might think. Rob

Agree. I have heard the "would you work if you weren't getting paid" thing about 10,000 times. IMO treeing coon for dogs isn't work and they aren't expecting or demanding a reward for doing it. They do it because that is what their brain and breeding is programmed to do. If getting a good hound was as easy as a stimulus and reward system there wouldn't be any emphasis on breeding or thousands of coons shot out to dogs that never get any better.

Dogs can't count. They don't know if they have treed 10 coon or 100 coon and not got one shot out. You turn them loose and they do what they do.....it aint like you don't shoot one in a while and they form a picket line and go on strike.

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Posted by TylerOSU on 08-01-2019 05:09 PM:

Re: Re: I agree with Autumn & Bill

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
Agree. I have heard the "would you work if you weren't getting paid" thing about 10,000 times. IMO treeing coon for dogs isn't work and they aren't expecting or demanding a reward for doing it. They do it because that is what their brain and breeding is programmed to do. If getting a good hound was as easy as a stimulus and reward system there wouldn't be any emphasis on breeding or thousands of coons shot out to dogs that never get any better.

Dogs can't count. They don't know if they have treed 10 coon or 100 coon and not got one shot out. You turn them loose and they do what they do.....it aint like you don't shoot one in a while and they form a picket line and go on strike.

A horse is bred and trained to ride. You every tried to catch one that you ride the heck out of and never give any grain? They stop running up and sticking their nose in the halter. Most of these dogs are smarter than we give them credit for. The whole purpose is to kill coons. They were bred to run, tree, and have coons killed. You think in the 70's and 80's they weren't killing everything that climbed you are wrong.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-01-2019 05:17 PM:

Re: Re: Re: I agree with Autumn & Bill

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
A horse is bred and trained to ride. You every tried to catch one that you ride the heck out of and never give any grain? They stop running up and sticking their nose in the halter. Most of these dogs are smarter than we give them credit for. The whole purpose is to kill coons. They were bred to run, tree, and have coons killed. You think in the 70's and 80's they weren't killing everything that climbed you are wrong.

So when hides were $20-$30 a pop hunters were shooting un prime coons all summer to keep the dogs in shape for the winter when coon were prime? unlikely.

Look Tyler, if you have the coon and the time, get in those classifieds and pick up a bunch of $300 to $500 1 year old dogs that just need a few more paychecks.....you should be able to triple your money in about a month. Let me know how it works out for you.

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-01-2019 05:26 PM:

How many bears or lions do you think big game dogs get shot to them out of season? Do they quit running? How may beaglers do you see toting a shotgun all summer feeding fur?

This whole "few more coons" thing has been a line for FOREVER. Does it hurt, probably not, does it help with a young learning dog? Maybe. Does a dog that is up and running need to chew on a dead coon to do what it does.....unlikely.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-01-2019 05:26 PM:

I thought that coonhounds now are bred to get open quick and make trees?

Do high school and college football players get paid? Amateur golfers don't get paid yet the local golf courses are packed.

If I shot out 1 coon every 15 or 20 that would be 1 every 6 months.

Posted by shadinc on 08-01-2019 05:38 PM:

I'm hunting a 14-month-old female now that just started treeing about 6 weeks ago. She hasn't seen a coon in over 3 months. For the last 6 weeks, she trees better every time I take her out. She treed two last night, alone. I didn't shoot either one.

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Posted by mickyblues on 08-01-2019 06:25 PM:

Vienna Sausage works good to. when my dogs do good pet them up and give them a Vienna sausage.

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Posted by TylerOSU on 08-01-2019 06:43 PM:

Ron- I would love to get in the classifieds and make a big ole profit. BUT many pups lack the one thing I HAVE to have and that's drive. I don't care if they run junk, catch skunks, cover, as long as they aren't laying around me after I cut them. Ill feed them coons IF they find themselves under them.

Shad- We all have our differences BUT if I was hunting a pup and it wasn't running and treeing by 10 or so months old its gone. Too many of them out there to wait until they are 2. maybe if you'd shown her some more coons she would have taken off quicker and you'd be ahead of the ballgame? And if she'd treed two by herself last night she probably would have gotten two coons killed to her.

Hides aren't worth anything as we know. I kill the same amount in the winter time as I do in the summer. The only time I'm reserved some is when the sows are milking.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-01-2019 06:52 PM:

Anybody ever notice that the very best they have owned had a true hatred of coons? Like the dog took it as it's personal responsibility to eradicate the world of them and tree everyone he could possibly find regardless of conditions or terrain. This thread reminds of a dog Cheyenne owned called Spider which he will tell you to this day is still possibly the best he ever owned. Spider never or rarely ever had a coon shot out to him, he killed each one himself. Chey would climb the tree and knock the coon out or it would jump and Spider would quickly kill it and would carry it to the tailgate for you. During the off season this was a rarity but every now and then one would mysteriously fall out for him to take care of. He loved this reward more than any ear scratching though he aimed to please and loved his master to his dying day. It was a team effort between the two and something the dog knew. His ears didn't hang down like a typical hounds do they kinda stuck out from the side of his head from being so scared up. Back in the day MANY hunters didn't carry a gun they used this same method of climbing and the reward for the dog was to finish off the game themselves. There were alot of hunters that rarely hunted in the off season but waited until hides were good to start when late fall arrived with hide prices like they were many were harvested as income.
With no better way to put it the blood lust from the occasional kill puts a determination in dogs like nothing else can, you can see it in their demeanor and the true hatred of this game in their eyes and the love of going in search of them. No you don't have to shoot every coon in the woods but if your dog could talk he would tell you let me have one every now and then I'd rather have him than a Vienna sausage. Hunters are the best conservationist there are and know where coons may need thinned and where they need a larger population, if not nature will do it's thing through disease. There are several states with year around seasons for this reason. Many houndsman recognize when it is time to reward a pup or a young dog that just did it right or a seasoned hound to keep it at the top of it's game through this eradication mind set the natural coonhound has.

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Posted by shadinc on 08-01-2019 07:02 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
Ron- I would love to get in the classifieds and make a big ole profit. BUT many pups lack the one thing I HAVE to have and that's drive. I don't care if they run junk, catch skunks, cover, as long as they aren't laying around me after I cut them. Ill feed them coons IF they find themselves under them.

Shad- We all have our differences BUT if I was hunting a pup and it wasn't running and treeing by 10 or so months old its gone. Too many of them out there to wait until they are 2. maybe if you'd shown her some more coons she would have taken off quicker and you'd be ahead of the ballgame? And if she'd treed two by herself last night she probably would have gotten two coons killed to her.

Hides aren't worth anything as we know. I kill the same amount in the winter time as I do in the summer. The only time I'm reserved some is when the sows are milking.

Tyler, I wasn't trying to tell you I had the best method for training pups. I was merely pointing out that if a dog is bred to tree, it will tree. If I killed every coon my dogs treed, she might have been treeing at 8 months old. That's not what this discussion is about. And she's never had a Vienna sausage.

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Posted by wildwilly0161 on 08-01-2019 07:20 PM:

Thyroid

When you get her to the vet I would make sure to have her Thyroid checked !! She's probably just getting ready to come into heat, However, in females, Thyroid issues can be very similar to changes in temperament during heat cycles, because they are both hormonal!
I have seen many broke Hounds change suddenly and Drastically due to thyroid issues. These Hounds can seem to change hunting styles overnight!!! I have seen a major rise in Thyroid issues over the last few years, in nearly all hunting breeds of Dog (extream athletes)!!!
I have seen these hormonal changes in Hounds, caused by switching feeds as well as a couple of other causes.
What is her age?
How did she hunt normally?
What specific changes in her hunt have you noticed?
What if any changes have you noticed in with her at home in the yard?
With this info. we'll be able to get her back on track!!!

ps. If I notice unusual changes in hunt during warmer months. The first thing I do is to remove their undercoat with a Blade/Toothed style comb! Many Coonhounds never lose their baby fur (undercoat) Rather it builds up year after year causing borderline overheating consistently as they age!!! This type of Overheating can mimic thyroid issues, as to much heat for too long lowers the production of the Same hormones.

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-01-2019 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by TylerOSU
Ron- I would love to get in the classifieds and make a big ole profit. BUT many pups lack the one thing I HAVE to have and that's drive. I don't care if they run junk, catch skunks, cover, as long as they aren't laying around me after I cut them. Ill feed them coons IF they find themselves under them.

Shad- We all have our differences BUT if I was hunting a pup and it wasn't running and treeing by 10 or so months old its gone. Too many of them out there to wait until they are 2. maybe if you'd shown her some more coons she would have taken off quicker and you'd be ahead of the ballgame? And if she'd treed two by herself last night she probably would have gotten two coons killed to her.

Hides aren't worth anything as we know. I kill the same amount in the winter time as I do in the summer. The only time I'm reserved some is when the sows are milking.

I don't want to assume anything but is it fair to say you have never trained one without shooting every coon they tree? I can't say I have never trained one shooting even a very small %.

Im not saying one way is right over the other, I am just wondering if you have had a bunch stop treeing coons if you didn't shoot them out and that is why you do it, or you just enjoy shooting coon. I know i do not, if it took me shooting 5 coon a week, I would quit.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-01-2019 08:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
..........
With no better way to put it the blood lust from the occasional kill puts a determination in dogs like nothing else can, you can see it in their demeanor and the true hatred of this game in their eyes and the love of going in search of them.......

I have known some coon hunters that this description fits also.

Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 08-01-2019 08:47 PM:

I guess my other question would be, How many hunt hours would you estimate that a dog can go without a coon shot down to it without an obvious change in its performance level?

In your experience do they need one an hour, one every 2 hours, one every 2 weeks or one a year to perform their best. Where is line of diminished returns?

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Posted by sleepy head on 08-01-2019 09:08 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
I guess my other question would be, How many hunt hours would you estimate that a dog can go without a coon shot down to it without an obvious change in its performance level?

In your experience do they need one an hour, one every 2 hours, one every 2 weeks or one a year to perform their best. Where is line of diminished returns?

Unless I was flat out lied to which I don't think I was, a world champion went 3 years before becoming champ without a coon knocked out. According to the guy if you did gave him one the dog might look at it but that was it. I have a possum dog that's old enough to vote who has never been given one but he still loves to tree them.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 08-01-2019 10:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Ashbaugh
I don't want to assume anything but is it fair to say you have never trained one without shooting every coon they tree? I can't say I have never trained one shooting even a very small %.

Im not saying one way is right over the other, I am just wondering if you have had a bunch stop treeing coons if you didn't shoot them out and that is why you do it, or you just enjoy shooting coon. I know i do not, if it took me shooting 5 coon a week, I would quit.

It has nothing to do with any of that how many, how often ect ect ect... it is that it is the ultimate reward for a dog. Should they get or need every coon no. That would be a good way to get your dog to return to trees when game was not given. There is a balance in everything. Do you need to give this ultimate reward some to help develope the strongest coon lust in a dog, yes. All prefer it to those sausages and a pat on the head. The best dogs typically have true hatred of coons not just the want to track and tree.

Note!! The estrus cycle does affect thyriod levels and is not a true reading when tested pre, during and right after as there are significant changes in all hormone levels. Also, the time of day blood levels are draw can have a significant effect on levels. They should be highest early morning, gradually taper off during the day with a slight rise into the night peaking again in the early morning hours, it is on a 24 hour cycle like many other things. This is all controlled by the brain and directly correlates to sunshine. You may find that dogs lacking natural light or replacement will have low levels also those that live in harsher winter environments will have lower levels in the winter months. So many vets are completely at odds on correct levels, levels of athletes compared to average humans and pooches.

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