UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Performance Programs needed improvements: (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928472164)

Performance Programs needed improvements:

These changes should more than double current point values enticing hunters, helping club attendance, and increasing quality breeders revenue.

1. Permanent Performance fees:
$40 up to 6mo.
$100 up to 12mo.
$200 up to 18mo.

2. Sire fees:
Increase $50
$150
$250
$350

3. Litter Registration fees
Increase $10

4. Issue no checks under $50
Place all checks under $50 back into the fund for upcoming year.

Sire and dam owners need to get more of a percentage often times the winning pups come from sombody that owns both for instance a winning dog gets paid $600 the stud owner gets $60 little one sided.

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Sire and dam owners need to get more of a percentage often times the winning pups come from sombody that owns both for instance a winning dog gets paid $600 the stud owner gets $60 little one sided.

---

Hw not what I ment a big percentage of pups come from breeders that own sire and dam time you pay performance on stud , dna , papers fees , wormers , shots , feed bill , advertisement ect ect you can't sell those pups for enough to get your money back been there done that !!

i pay some up in theses programs but really i hate them all. it's all about the money.

I agree, but you have to provide an incentive to keep people coming, and money is a strong motivator. I hunted for slips, trophies and titles for years, but the younger generation will not.

Drive 13 hrs one way for several years get sent home with your tail between your legs those trophys close to home start to look pretty good lol !!

The interest earned over the course of a year needs to be added back into the P.P. payout , screw the fee increases .
UKC pockets 10% plus the interest earned......Dahhhhh
And u propose more fee increases......Haaaaa.

im with dogwhisper,its already hard enough to get the money back that you spend just making your dog a performance sire.defintely do not want any increase of anything what so ever.i mean even the bloodlines had a slight increase a few years ago and the magazine isnt nowhere as thick as it was 10 years ago.Thats the thing about increases once it goes up you know it isnt ever coming back down.the same as taxes.

__________________
GRNTCH GRCH 'PR' ENGLISH PRIDE'S LITTLE LIZ
NITE CH.Englishprides Williams' Miracle
.Nite Ch.ENGLISH PRIDE'S Miss Daisey
Nite ch Englishprides Carolina Jasmine
Bobby Williams-803-669-7443

I couldn't disagree more. This program is a decade old and in serious need of changes. With these slight increases if you own a male and grand him out your Performance check will more than double and you could easily pay $50 extra dollars for Sires fee if that's your chosen path. I look at things thru a Hunter & club members stand point.

I'm a hunter, club president, stud owner, breeder, and don't think raising the fees are the way to go. Stud owner has enough people wanting to breed for pups, talking about their long drive. Breeders have people not wanting to pay that price for a puppy because ole Joe down the road has some for $150.

Clubs struggle to get hunters because there are too many clubs. 20 years ago I had to drive 1:15/1:30 most nights to hunt. There were 2 clubs 45 minutes from my house. Now there are about 6 under an hour. Plus there are 3 other Kennel Clubs having hunts.

The kennel clubs want more hunts with the same amount of entries. Clubs need less hunts with more enries on each night. If three clubs have a hunt on the same night you 30 hunters are spread out. If only one club has a hunt then those 30 hunters are at one hunt. Also, you'll only have one first instead of three given out that night. Point value goes up.

__________________
🇺🇸TAVARES' FIRST CLASS BLACK & TANS...🇺🇸
HOME OF THE FUTURE...POWERED BY:
GRNTCH GRCH FIRST CLASS SMOKIN' JETS-"SON"
1/24/02---5/21/12
Manning, South Carolina
Ph. 803-840-2013
If you text this number you won’t get a response unless you include your name.

💰💰Click blue link to check us out on Facebook💰💰
👉🏼 Tavares' First Class Black & Tans 👈🏼

Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

I have a bachelor's in Business administration and majored in Finance so I look at most things through a Financial stand point. Take a look at attendance & point payout in 2006 vs. 2016. Now imagine the same drop in attendance & point payout in 2026. Mr. Tavares have you noticed any change in your club in the last 10 years? Does anyone know why KCs offering $ incentives seams to be growing?

In 1995 I purchased a Chevy ex- cab 4x4 for just over $18,000 put $.97 gas in it and drove to Kentucky and bought a well bred pup for $250. I purchased a 2016 Chevy recently for $37,000 and can put $2.21 gas in it and go to Kentucky and still buy a well bred pup for $250. There's a financial reason lights, dog boxes, boots, tracking systems, and feed are 50%+/- higher and stud fees, pups, and finished dogs are about the same.

Well somebody explain to me why your dog isn't worth a plug nickle unless you pay for him to be performanced and SS? I got a male bred as good as can be. People want the bloodlines but turn and run when I tell them he is not paid up. Yes, he is UKC PKC and CHKC registered but not paid up. They all came running when they saw the add for pups off him and wanted to breed but then tucked tail and ran when I told them that he was not paid up. Explain this to me please, I beg you. It's bullcrap if you ask me. Looks to me like people have got caught up in having them papers. Looks like if they spent as much time hunting and pushing these young dogs into making them papers worth something instead of just having them to brag about then it would be more worth the trouble. Am I right or just bitter? Enlighten me, Please!

__________________
Jamie Ramey.
1-870-223-3844
Keep looking up, you'll find what you're looking for.

Ch GrNiteCh. Ch. Ramey's Oakwood Woody
PR Ramey's Crockett Rose
NITECH CH PR Hardin-Williams Spider
PR Ramey's Lute

quote:

---

Originally posted by H.W. Moore
In 1995 I purchased a Chevy ex- cab 4x4 for just over $18,000 put $.97 gas in it and drove to Kentucky and bought a well bred pup for $250. I purchased a 2016 Chevy recently for $37,000 and can put $2.21 gas in it and go to Kentucky and still buy a well bred pup for $250. There's a financial reason lights, dog boxes, boots, tracking systems, and feed are 50%+/- higher and stud fees, pups, and finished dogs are about the same.

---

__________________
🇺🇸TAVARES' FIRST CLASS BLACK & TANS...🇺🇸
HOME OF THE FUTURE...POWERED BY:
GRNTCH GRCH FIRST CLASS SMOKIN' JETS-"SON"
1/24/02---5/21/12
Manning, South Carolina
Ph. 803-840-2013
If you text this number you won’t get a response unless you include your name.

💰💰Click blue link to check us out on Facebook💰💰
👉🏼 Tavares' First Class Black & Tans 👈🏼

Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

Apologies

I apologize for going a little rant. Sometimes things just rub me wrong. I do think the programs are good. It's just that some things don't make good sense. Again, I apologize for ranting. Please continue.

__________________
Jamie Ramey.
1-870-223-3844
Keep looking up, you'll find what you're looking for.

Ch GrNiteCh. Ch. Ramey's Oakwood Woody
PR Ramey's Crockett Rose
NITECH CH PR Hardin-Williams Spider
PR Ramey's Lute

It cost the same too hunt a pup hats paid up versus one that's not. Pups that are paid up will generally command a better price with all things being equal. If you don't like the different programs you don't have to participate, but don't complain when what you have too sell doesn't sell because it's not paid up.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fatherof4
Well somebody explain to me why your dog isn't worth a plug nickle unless you pay for him to be performanced and SS? I got a male bred as good as can be. People want the bloodlines but turn and run when I tell them he is not paid up. Yes, he is UKC PKC and CHKC registered but not paid up. They all came running when they saw the add for pups off him and wanted to breed but then tucked tail and ran when I told them that he was not paid up. Explain this to me please, I beg you. It's bullcrap if you ask me. Looks to me like people have got caught up in having them papers. Looks like if they spent as much time hunting and pushing these young dogs into making them papers worth something instead of just having them to brag about then it would be more worth the trouble. Am I right or just bitter? Enlighten me, Please!

---

Ukc could do alot better on paying back to the hunters who pay up performance sires, Raise litters and own and title out females. Raising rates will only fatten there pockets more! Pkc is a money man's game. If u wanta pay 300 to hunt go there and pay it!

__________________
GR.NT.CH WOODARDS ALLGRAND SPIDERMAN
Gr.NT.CH. WOODARDS ALLGRAND BATMAN
GR.NT.CH. SMOKEY MTN LIZ

PR. WOODARDS ALLGRAND ANN ( SPIDER X LIZ PUP)
PR. WOODARDS HARDWOOD DOC ( SPIDER X LIZ PUP)
Nt.ch. all night Hanna
Nt.ch. Dual Fuel Frisky

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randy Woodard
Ukc could do alot better on paying back to the hunters who pay up performance sires, Raise litters and own and title out females. Raising rates will only fatten there pockets more! Pkc is a money man's game. If u wanta pay 300 to hunt go there and pay it!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by H.W. Moore
If you pay up a performance sire and breed 2 gyps for $200 each you've tripled your investment. If you pay a stud $200, pay all registration fees and raise a litter of 6 you've quadrupled your investment. Raising rates will fatten their pockets, as they get 10%. It will also fatten yours if you win..Would you pay $10 more dollars to permanently performance a hound to turn a $100 point into a $200 point?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by H.W. Moore
If you pay up a performance sire and breed 2 gyps for $200 each you've tripled your investment. If you pay a stud $200, pay all registration fees and raise a litter of 6 you've quadrupled your investment. Raising rates will fatten their pockets, as they get 10%. It will also fatten yours if you win..Would you pay $10 more dollars to permanently performance a hound to turn a $100 point into a $200 point?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rob thompson
it won't raise the point value! Ukc will keep the money!

---

I would have thought long overdue slight increases & minor changes to double Performance check payouts would have been welcome, I was wrong. On the flip side as payouts and attendance continue to fall its very easy to title a dog! We've lost the Melbourne, Pleasant plains, Brookland, and Algoa clubs in my area with 2 more about to fold barring a miracle, I hope someone has a plan. I hunt cause I love it, but I won't drive 100mi and pay $20 for a shot at a slip & 1/10 of a $100 performance point when I can pay $30 for a shot at $50-100..

You are right Mr Moore the payout is not very good but what about the guys who breed their own dogs. The cost to get one performance/superstake pup is outrageous! Especially if you don't plan ahead and pay everything early. And when they switched the DNA labs it got even higher! That's was retarded! Pay DNA twice on the same dogs! And then you don't even get points for rqe's, slams, zones, it really doesn't make sence to even enroll a stud for your own use. Why would i wanna pay more when more when half of the events don't even give you points? I just don't make sense to me to volunteer more money when I know i won't get paid.