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-- new rule change (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928521886)


Posted by Paul0104 on 09-04-2019 06:28 PM:

new rule change

so its ok for a silent dog now ?if that's the case ,thought coonhuntin had hounds .silent track dog should never be allowed


Posted by Night Shift on 09-04-2019 06:37 PM:

Re: new rule change

quote:
Originally posted by Paul0104
so its ok for a silent dog now ?if that's the case ,thought coonhuntin had hounds .silent track dog should never be allowed

Itís ok for silent hounds. Silent dogs still arenít allowed.

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Posted by Al Medcalf on 09-04-2019 06:47 PM:

Got some silent ones here that luckily have never heard that coonhunting wasn't for silent dogs.

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Posted by gpent24 on 09-04-2019 07:29 PM:

I can understand why someone might not like a silent dog pleasure hunting but why does it bother people so much in a competition hunt? An independent open dog should beat an independent silent dog 10 out of 10 times if they tree the same amount of coons. I'm glad they did away with the rule.

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Posted by jgs on 09-04-2019 08:14 PM:

Love the changes the babling deep and lonely won't win near as much as the dog that can tree the most coon in shortest time and back packers are going to have to backpack a little faster


Posted by davery on 09-05-2019 02:30 AM:

Meat dogs

We used to call them silent dogs meat dogs they will tree more coons but no races can be heard to see who has the fasted dog


Posted by Reuben on 09-05-2019 02:40 AM:

It seems back in the old days before Garmin and before radio telemetry it was probably a great idea to have open trailing dogs...and we tried real hard to keep within hearing on account we didnít want to miss the action or even lose the dogs...Which makes me appreciate my alpha even more when I think about the olden days

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Posted by Dave Richards on 09-05-2019 04:28 AM:

Silient dogs

I get a kick out of those that complain about silient hounds hunting in competition hunts, being silient does not make them a coondog or help them tree more coons. I hunt open trailing dogs, but enjoy a good coondog silient or open. If my open trailing dogs can't beat a silient dog in a competition hunt, then they deserve to get beat. I should have more strike points to start off with, and if they beat me by treeing more coons, then I need a better dog. I have owned a couple of silient dogs that were pretty good coon dogs, but not competition dogs that could win hunts on a consistent basis. I would love to draw 3 silient dogs in every cast I hunt in competition and if any one of them trees more coons than my dog, I WILL NOT complain. Dave

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Posted by Dave Richards on 09-05-2019 04:28 AM:

Silient dogs

Double post, sorry.

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Posted by Tech on 09-05-2019 03:44 PM:

Silent dogs

Well said Dave.


Posted by davery on 09-05-2019 09:11 PM:

Rules

They will minus your dog for opening and if you get a first tree it wonít help you much


Posted by tony.beals on 09-05-2019 09:50 PM:

Re: Silient dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I get a kick out of those that complain about silient hounds hunting in competition hunts, being silient does not make them a coondog or help them tree more coons. I hunt open trailing dogs, but enjoy a good coondog silient or open. If my open trailing dogs can't beat a silient dog in a competition hunt, then they deserve to get beat. I should have more strike points to start off with, and if they beat me by treeing more coons, then I need a better dog. I have owned a couple of silient dogs that were pretty good coon dogs, but not competition dogs that could win hunts on a consistent basis. I would love to draw 3 silient dogs in every cast I hunt in competition and if any one of them trees more coons than my dog, I WILL NOT complain. Dave


That by far is the best explanation I have heard yet

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Posted by yadkinriver on 09-05-2019 09:56 PM:

Lotta people talking about how easy it is to beat a silent dog. I have seen several that were extremely hard to beat. Sneak off to themselves then BAM strike him and tree him. Nothing covering on track and highly accurate since they sneak up on a coon and tree him up the closest thing around including a sapling or bush. Hard for the competition to go blind when he's sitting just out of reach. Back in the hide days they were at a premium. Personally I prefer an open, faster and better dog.


Posted by Dave Richards on 09-05-2019 10:42 PM:

Yadkinriver

If that silient dog beats my dog, it means that it is a better coondog. I do not make excuses for my dogs period. A silient dog is not necessary a hot nosed pop up coon trees, we are talking hounds not cur dogs. My dog should find and open on a coon just as quick as a silient dog finds a track. Losing to a silient dog is no different than losing to a open trailing dog, you just got beat. Why does anyone equate being silient to being hot nosed ambush style anymore than being open trailing hot nosed ambush style. Both open and silient can be just that or cold nosed trailing type dogs. Dave

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Posted by yadkinriver on 09-05-2019 11:37 PM:

I didn't say anything about being hot nosed. Ambush, yes. If a silent dog sneaks off to itself and strikes no other dog hears it to cover and the coon doesn't know the dog is in the world until it is close to the coon hence the ambush. In reality it appears the silent dog as hot nosed since the race is usually much shorter and anyone who has ever hunted a good silent dog will tell you they will show you more coons than an open trailer.


Posted by yadkintar on 09-05-2019 11:42 PM:

Some dogs get tighter mouthed after being in competition for a while. They get tired of other dogs coming into their trees face barking and biting them so they try and sneak away from the crowd.


Tar


Posted by Dave Richards on 09-06-2019 12:12 AM:

Tar

The style of dogs being hunted in today's hunts are very comparable to the silient dogs style, they are totally independent strike and tree separate, won't cover another dog, etc. At least the open mouth gets more strike points. I have owned and hunted a couple of really good independent silient dogs that tree a truck load of coons and did. I still say a coondog that opens has the advantage in a night hunt, the dogs winning the most today are the first strike dogs that tree 1 coon in an hour hunt and they win by striking first ( honest or not) all dogs can tree separate coons, but old first strike has them beat on score. Hunting a silient dog would be taking a backseat in points. Yadkinriver, hide hunting all night would give a good silient dog the advantage in numbers treed, it just doesn't give them an advantage in a short night huntg cast imo. Dave

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Posted by yadkintar on 09-06-2019 01:08 AM:

Dave I will try and say this and bring the past to the present. Back in the three hour hunt days you would have a dogs that would run a hot coon , trail up and tree a cold track , and drop treed on a layup out of nowhere. All the same dog. On a bad night that coons were not moving they would tree layup after layup! On those nights a dog of lesser ability would look like chit against them. And the handler would be trying to get them scratched. Now these new rules are going to bring the more rounded tree every coon in the woods dog back. The babbling boys donít like it it takes away their game so they are going to throw tantrums and say this dog is silent because my canít keep up with him enough to babble and backpack off him and I canít blow deep and leash lock you either.


Coondogs are coming they just better get them one if they want to win.


Tar


Posted by Dave Richards on 09-06-2019 01:28 AM:

Tar

That's the way it should be, let the best coondog win. I don't care if it's a one legged coyote sounding blind in one mutt, if it trees mire coons than my dog, it's simply better. No excuses period. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by honalieh on 09-06-2019 02:39 AM:

Silent Dogs

I've never kept a stone silent dog (have had a couple). I did keep one that would bark once, and only once, on almost every track. I've mostly kept semi-silent dogs, bark a handful of times on track before falling treed. Even dogs that were wide open when young would typically tighten up when you started knocking coon down.

As far as silent and fully open, and the nose, there is no correlation. I've seen tight mouthed dogs with very good noses.

As far as showing coon on the outside, the tight mouth dog definitely has an advantage, more smaller trees, fewer den trees (they don't give warning). That advantage increases tremendously if you are cutting loose again in the same woods. The tighter mouth dog hasn't created a ruckus (warning) on the first track.

A tighter mouthed dog of quality usually has an advantage of being able to tree quicker (ahead of) an open mouthed dog of similar quality. But, when that tighter mouthed dog is consistently treeing 2nd, 3rd, or 4th (split or not), we're not talking about similar quality and ability anymore. Certainly, there's an exception to this rule when the 1st tree dog is a slick treeing fool.

Here's what I don't like. (1) Fighting dogs (usually described by their owners as; "He's not rough, but... (2) Fast Trash Running dogs. Simply because they can be so hard to catch. (3) Dogs that can't keep up so split off. They are popular under our current competition rules, where 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs can get 1st tree dog points. But, they can be miserable for actually coonhunting (whether hunting two dogs by yourself or hunting with a buddy. I've actually had 3 like this (none were high end dogs---if they were, they wouldn't have had to split so often---they'd have treed 1st). I actually kept one of these, because my good dogs---the ones she had to split from---were older dogs.


Posted by Dave Richards on 09-06-2019 06:18 AM:

Dogs

Silient or open, hunt what you like, but don't try and say that the silient dogs have an advantage in a night hunt. I have hunted 59 plus years and been fortunate enough to hunt some pretty nice dogs. A dog that is a coondog is a coondog not because they open or because they are silient on track. It takes brains ! I do not buy the theory that a silient dog has an advantage due to sneaking up on coons. I used to hunt on a ridge where fox hunter ran their dogs and treed a bunch of coons while the fox dogs ran up and down that ridge running foxes. I do not believe a dog barking has much effect on a coons movements, think what you like. Some people want an excuse as to why their dog got beat, not me. I know if I am packing a good coondog and it's going to take a better dog to beat me. I like to hear a good coon chase and prefer open trailing dogs, but I still like a good coondog silient or open. Dave

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Posted by bowling on 09-06-2019 12:21 PM:

Re: Yadkinriver

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Richards
If that silient dog beats my dog, it means that it is a better coondog. I do not make excuses for my dogs period. A silient dog is not necessary a hot nosed pop up coon trees, we are talking hounds not cur dogs. My dog should find and open on a coon just as quick as a silient dog finds a track. Losing to a silient dog is no different than losing to a open trailing dog, you just got beat. Why does anyone equate being silient to being hot nosed ambush style anymore than being open trailing hot nosed ambush style. Both open and silient can be just that or cold nosed trailing type dogs. Dave [/QUOTE a good majority of silent dogs werenít always silent they are smart enough to qet quiet on track makes it easier to tree mr coon. But I agree with Richard if I get beat by a silent dog continually I will change what Iím comp hunting with.


Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-06-2019 02:12 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
.......Coondogs are coming they just better get them one if they want to win.
Tar



Tarbaby, are you implying that we don't have any coondogs now or that we haven't had any in the past? Do you think that the dogs that won under the old rules weren't coondogs? Or the dogs that just hunted for fame and recognition and didn't care about the money weren't coondogs?


Posted by 2ol2hunt on 09-06-2019 03:16 PM:

Re: Re: Yadkinriver

quote:
Originally posted by bowling
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dave Richards
If that silient dog beats my dog, it means that it is a better coondog. I do not make excuses for my dogs period. A silient dog is not necessary a hot nosed pop up coon trees, we are talking hounds not cur dogs. My dog should find and open on a coon just as quick as a silient dog finds a track. Losing to a silient dog is no different than losing to a open trailing dog, you just got beat. Why does anyone equate being silient to being hot nosed ambush style anymore than being open trailing hot nosed ambush style. Both open and silient can be just that or cold nosed trailing type dogs. Dave [/QUOTE a good majority of silent dogs werenít always silent they are smart enough to qet quiet on track makes it easier to tree mr coon. But I agree with Richard if I get beat by a silent dog continually I will change what Iím comp hunting with.


Never heard of an open trailing hound just deciding to turn silent on track? I guess you learn something new everyday!


Posted by bowling on 09-06-2019 08:44 PM:

Hunted over 50 years and seen it happen many times and Iím sure a lot more than me have saw the same thing.


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