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-- What's your definition of a coon dog ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928521741)


Posted by Jeff Prince on 08-31-2019 02:08 PM:

What's your definition of a coon dog ?

I've hunted a long time and I can count on one hand how many I called a coon dog.

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Posted by yadkintar on 08-31-2019 02:23 PM:

As time has went on the less of them I have seen scarce as hens teeth.


Tar


Posted by Dave Richards on 08-31-2019 04:07 PM:

Coondog

I agree with both of you, I have hunted over 50 years and owned 2 that I called a coondog. My hunting buddy has hunted over 60 years and says he has only owned 3 that he called a coondog. Folks, that over 110 years combined and only 5 coon dogs. Lol. We either don't know a coondog or they are real scarce, I tend to believe they are scarce. Seen lots of dogs that tree coons, but were not coon dogs in my book. Dave

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Posted by joey on 08-31-2019 06:14 PM:

I've hunted over 30 years and I have had 3. I've had several others that were really nice hounds but I wouldn't hang that label on them.

A coondog is simply way above average at what it does. They do not all have to have the same style but they all get the same results. They Consistently tree coon with little effort when the other dogs cant.

I think people confuse dogs that they like for coondogs. Ive had a bunch that I liked but some quirk kept them from being a coondog. Heck I've seen dogs that were sure enough coondogs that I didn't like. Its two different things.

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Posted by Reuben on 08-31-2019 06:34 PM:

So what is the reason for so few sure enough real coon dogs???oops........🤔

What ARE the REASONS for so few sure enough real coon dogs?

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Posted by joey on 08-31-2019 07:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
So what is the reason for so few sure enough real coon dogs???oops........🤔

What ARE the REASONS for so few sure enough real coon dogs?




Because its a perfect combination of breeding and handling. The breeding is less of a problem than the handling. Getting a dog that has all the traits put into the hands of someone that will not only expose them to the right situations but also not ruin one in the yard is a hard combination to find.

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Posted by Reuben on 08-31-2019 07:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Because its a perfect combination of breeding and handling. The breeding is less of a problem than the handling. Getting a dog that has all the traits put into the hands of someone that will not only expose them to the right situations but also not ruin one in the yard is a hard combination to find.


Joey...this is a great answer and lots of truth in it.

But the men in the first three post have many years of coon hunting experience and probably have owned a minimum of 100 coon dogs between them yet 10 or less real coon dogs between them...probably super high standards as to what is a great coon dog...

I do know there are many variables in making a great hunting dog including having access to quality hunting spots...
I am trying to get closer to the truths so maybe there can be a higher percentage of great coon dogs or hunting dogs in general...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...


Posted by Jeff Prince on 08-31-2019 08:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
Joey...this is a great answer and lots of truth in it.

But the men in the first three post have many years of coon hunting experience and probably have owned a minimum of 100 coon dogs between them yet 10 or less real coon dogs between them...probably super high standards as to what is a great coon dog...

I do know there are many variables in making a great hunting dog including having access to quality hunting spots...
I am trying to get closer to the truths so maybe there can be a higher percentage of great coon dogs or hunting dogs in general...


Do you know who he is ? I've never hunted with him but a few of my friends have been his hunting buddies. Like Buddy Gilbert and Marcus Nance . I'm very sure he's seen coon dogs is.

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Posted by Reuben on 08-31-2019 08:47 PM:

Theoretical example...assuming Dave, Yadkintar and Jeff owned 100 coondogs combined and these men are top coondog men with very high standards in what a good coondog is...and they know exactly how to train one from a pup...between the three of them they have had approximately 10 great coon dogs...

Looking at hunting dogs in general as well as racehorses and people...

So looking at a set of 100 of each species...there will be the top 20, the average 60 and the below average 20...which totals 100 of each species...

So the top 10 in each species are the great ones which also are the top ten percent...assuming all works to plan...that is why Yadkintar has had only 4 great ones in his lifetime and Jeff and Dave have owned the other six great coondogs between them...which is exactly ten percent of the hundred they owned between them...the law of averages can be a great prediction tool...the challenges are great in this scenario like Joey mentioned...

I will add a few more obstacles...

Not breeding the right dogs
Not keeping the right pups for breeding
Not socializing the pups correctly
Not training and hunting the pup correctly...
Not knowing what a great hunting dog should be...

A little more on the 100 hunting dogs...so, are the top 2 percent the once in a lifetime dogs? If so then they need to be in the right hands or no one will ever know the potential of said dog...so maybe that is why they are called once in a lifetime dogs...

Hoping others will write their thought on why so few...

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Posted by yadkintar on 08-31-2019 09:13 PM:

Reuben here is were I draw my conclusion started at 10 yrs old in the bayous and rice fields of south tx. Moved to fort worth and handled dogs for many years for a man that rolled high dollar old stud dogs weekly. Then I moved to Oklahoma were I am now never had easy hunting and it demanded everything out of a dog. So an indifferent coondog that just didnít have bad nights that excelled the competition and if you put them in coons they treed them. Many of the brag dogs I handled fell way short of the mark in my woods. I have owned two in my life that deserved the title of coondog. I have hunted with several in this area that deserved it to but they were bred and trained here there is a reason autum oaks ainít in Oklahoma lol.


Tar


Posted by Dave Richards on 08-31-2019 11:24 PM:

Reuben

I have never trained a coondog period, however, I have always tried to own the best dogs I could find that could be bought. Saying that, I have seen hundreds of dogs in my hunting lifetime and only seen 5 that I called a coondog. Once you have hunted with a coondog, you have a measuring stick that's hard for most dogs to measure up too. A coondog is one that makes treeing coons look easy wherever you hunt them and trees them in Jan and Feb when most dogs are treeing dens or staying home. No excuses needed or no excuses made for a real coondog, and that's why there are so few and far between. There are a lot of good dogs, but few real coon dogs. Dave

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 09-01-2019 12:19 AM:

Re: Reuben

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I have never trained a coondog period, however, I have always tried to own the best dogs I could find that could be bought. Saying that, I have seen hundreds of dogs in my hunting lifetime and only seen 5 that I called a coondog. Once you have hunted with a coondog, you have a measuring stick that's hard for most dogs to measure up too. A coondog is one that makes treeing coons look easy wherever you hunt them and trees them in Jan and Feb when most dogs are treeing dens or staying home. No excuses needed or no excuses made for a real coondog, and that's why there are so few and far between. There are a lot of good dogs, but few real coon dogs. Dave
Dave Richards your totally right. should have added that those good ones arnt trained. they train the handlers.

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Posted by 2ol2hunt on 09-01-2019 12:20 AM:

Re: Reuben

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I have never trained a coondog period, however, I have always tried to own the best dogs I could find that could be bought. Saying that, I have seen hundreds of dogs in my hunting lifetime and only seen 5 that I called a coondog. Once you have hunted with a coondog, you have a measuring stick that's hard for most dogs to measure up too. A coondog is one that makes treeing coons look easy wherever you hunt them and trees them in Jan and Feb when most dogs are treeing dens or staying home. No excuses needed or no excuses made for a real coondog, and that's why there are so few and far between. There are a lot of good dogs, but few real coon dogs. Dave
That says it pretty well!


Posted by Reuben on 09-01-2019 12:55 AM:

Re: Reuben

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
I have never trained a coondog period, however, I have always tried to own the best dogs I could find that could be bought. Saying that, I have seen hundreds of dogs in my hunting lifetime and only seen 5 that I called a coondog. Once you have hunted with a coondog, you have a measuring stick that's hard for most dogs to measure up too. A coondog is one that makes treeing coons look easy wherever you hunt them and trees them in Jan and Feb when most dogs are treeing dens or staying home. No excuses needed or no excuses made for a real coondog, and that's why there are so few and far between. There are a lot of good dogs, but few real coon dogs. Dave


I agree with what you said...I like natural born ability as well...a diamond that needs a little polishing is all...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...


Posted by arkansas cooner on 09-01-2019 01:21 AM:

A dog that consistently night in and night out trees more coons than the average. No loose mouth, honest, donít bog down and blow up treed... that should get you started


Posted by Roy Grant on 09-01-2019 01:56 AM:

I was just wondering how the hounds we have owned would judge us...


Posted by SLR on 09-01-2019 02:48 AM:

Dog

In my opinion Dave Richards has hit the nail on the head

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Posted by SLR on 09-01-2019 03:49 AM:

Dog

If you will notice you find this in all sports human or animal you got your stars and you got a few superstars

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Posted by Dave Richards on 09-01-2019 08:34 AM:

SLR

I agree 100 percent, you have a lot of good players and some Stars, but the Superstars are few. Now they all play the same game, work just as much, but some few are just special and watching them play is a real pleasure. Watching a true coondog go is just as much pleasure, it's not something everyone will ever get to enjoy. I consider it a privilege that I have witnessed a few coon dogs operate at a higher level, it certainly spoils one when you know they exist, just not many of them. Dave

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Posted by pigsit on 09-01-2019 01:39 PM:

I don't know, but Ill know it, when I see it.

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Posted by SLR on 09-01-2019 02:50 PM:

Dog

Yes youíll know it Iíve had the pleasure of seeing 2 in 50 plus years of hunting and sadly didnít own either one

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Posted by ant12 on 09-01-2019 03:55 PM:

Coon dog

If Jeff Prince has it and calls it a coon dog,,,, IT IS! Someone should buy that pup trainer for sale.

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Posted by DL NH on 09-01-2019 06:28 PM:

Any hound that has to be TRAINED to be a coon dog isn't one!

They're trained to handle and if need be, corrected on what not to do & what not to run. The rest they're born with. They just need a good handler to provide a good home and expose them to the game!

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Posted by Reuben on 09-01-2019 08:45 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
Any hound that has to be TRAINED to be a coon dog isn't one!

They're trained to handle and if need be, corrected on what not to do & what not to run. The rest they're born with. They just need a good handler to provide a good home and expose them to the game!



I agree and I will add this...with a handler that does the right things at the right times and the dog will be on its way to making a top dog...

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 09-01-2019 09:15 PM:

There are a lot of people on here who have hunted with more dogs and better dogs than I have but my experience has shown me that an exceptional coon dog wasn't necessarily the best at everything but had some things he was so good at that he just stood out and 80% of the time made the other dogs look bad. I hunted with a dog called Scout back in the seventies that would tree more coon than any dog I have ever hunted with but could not (or would not) grub up a cold track. He struck coon out of the back of the truck at 60 MPH that were a 200-300 yds off the road. Not once in a while but consistently. He ran a track with his head up and ran to catch. Would tree a lot of coon by winding them. Sometimes would be off a tree or two so you looked into the wind. Absolutely stay treed type dog. Now this is the interesting part: we also hunted a female called Fannie that would occasionally grub up a cold track get it moving before Scout could tell it was there. Often she would tree the coon ahead of him. He was also the most amazing squirrel dog I have ever seen. In the black jacks he would run your legs off and was gone on another one before the last one hit the ground. Sad part he could never reproduce himself. Pups were mediocre at best.

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