UKC Forums - Do Titles matter now days

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Posted by dixiedog on 05-27-2019 05:51 AM:

Do Titles matter now days

What happened to the thread that was on here? It was 4 pages deep.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 05-27-2019 06:40 AM:

Poofed by the powers that be.

__________________
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Posted by nitehunter2004 on 05-27-2019 01:05 PM:

Re: Do Titles matter now days

quote:
Originally posted by dixiedog
What happened to the thread that was on here? It was 4 pages deep.

Did you not get the answer you wonted!

Posted by edwardfasteddy on 05-27-2019 02:03 PM:

Titles DON"T MATTER, THAT"S WHY THEY TOOK IT DOWN!

Posted by edwardfasteddy on 05-27-2019 02:06 PM:

Its more fun to put it on to a dog with titles then to have a dog with titles that can't put it on to a dog with no titles.. Lol!

Posted by dixiedog on 05-27-2019 03:44 PM:

I was just trying to see what everyone thought about titles now days compared to years past. If this is rhat touchy of a subject , what a joke.

Posted by Dave Richards on 05-27-2019 10:55 PM:

Dixiedog

The titles mean no more or no less than they ever did. Some folks want to complain that the low number of digs in s hunt has cheapens the titles. I say bull crap to that, ALL one ever did was beat the dogs in their cast to win that cast, they NEVER competed against the dogs in the other casts. Placing cast winners by scores was a joke, NO cast winner should have been considered any better than another cast winner when the dogs were never hunted with each other, only the dogs in their cast. There was never any equality in that equation, as some casts hunted in honeyholes and other casts hunted in thin coons. Absent a cast winner elimination style hunt, all cast winners deserve the same recognition. The new format addresses this inequity and treats ALL cast winners equal as it should be. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 05-28-2019 02:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkinriver
I'm aware that the best you can do is beat the dogs in your cast but if placing dogs by their score is a joke what if the club is giving away a dog box or light, declaring King or Queen of The hunt or even determining the world champion? How would you handle that? Draw numbers out of a hat or draw high card? Seems a score would matter at times.

That is the mentality that has been for to long. The only true way is by elimination style hunts for larger events. And for the record... I will stick with that at the UKC World hunt the 3 high scoring dogs of Friday's early round moving on to the finals needs done away with. To prove the point this years World Champion was sent back out to hunt late while 3 others that he went on to beat were automatically moved to the finals while he had to hunt again to get there. Were they better because of their score early Friday? On that weekend no. Many variables go into winning a cast, overall scores are quite often dependent upon the ground you have to hunt. This is the reason that double cast wins have always thought to be more important than a one night high score.
Some of the larger hunts may need to rethink their way of doing some things in crowning champions.

Posted by Dave Richards on 05-28-2019 03:32 AM:

Jen Cummings

I agree 100 percent, we have tolerated a skewed system for way too long. It was never fair to base advancement or winner based on high score when all dog done was beat the dogs in their cast just like all the other cast winners done. Comparing scores of casts hunting in different woods, sometimes different weather and different coon populations was a flawed system and proved absolutely nothing as to the best dog. Often times it was who got the best draw not who had the best dog, just like getting a first place based on high score. This system led to a lot of unworthy behavior even cheating. Minus a cast winner elimination style hunt, there CAN not be a true champion. One cast winner should not be given preference over another cast winner when they did not hunt against each other solely based on scores, as you said there are to many variables to just base position on a cast score. All the major hunts that base winning on one casts score are flawed, even a double cast win combined score is flawed, the still did not beat the other cast winners. I concede that this system was put in place due to time constraints and not having the time for a cast winner elimination style hunt, THAT still did not resolve the issue of who really was the best dog, only who got to hunt in the best places. We ALL deserve better than this, let the major hunts be a cast winner elimination hunt and crown the real Champion. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Dave Richards on 05-28-2019 03:44 AM:

Yadkinriver

Drawing a name from a hat that had all the cast winners would definitely be more fairer that just basing the winner on one casts high score. I would be more comfortable attending a hunt that was giving a dog box away by drawing the winner from a hat with all cast winners names in it, than knowing the winner was going to be the high scoring dog. I think most people would, it's a least a fair chance for every cast winner and eliminates the honey hole advantage that we all know exists in every club. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by yadkintar on 05-28-2019 11:36 AM:

I know from now on we will buy 10 dog boxes and 10 trophy’s the same size for major hunts. Then if you got plus points and win your cast no matter how many !! you win !!! Everybody’s a winner !! You get a dog box and you get a dog box and even you get one woooo hoooo everybody is happy.

Tarbaby

Posted by yadkintar on 05-28-2019 12:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I know from now on we will buy 10 dog boxes and 10 trophy’s the same size for major hunts. Then if you got plus points and win your cast no matter how many !! you win !!! Everybody’s a winner !! You get a dog box and you get a dog box and even you get one woooo hoooo everybody is happy.

The system is skewed right now in two registries one has elimination style hunts because the name of the game is to keep you on the leash and not competing and work the clock because all you got to do is win your cast to advance. 2 kc’s you don’t even have to tree a coon ! Buy some of the answers on here I can tell some ain’t been in a hunt in years.

When I see dogs go to a major hunt and pay a high entry and get sent home time after time because a dog beat them with minus points to advance I am not impressed.

Tarbaby

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 05-28-2019 12:09 PM:

I’m in the need of a new box.

Posted by Dave Richards on 05-28-2019 12:15 PM:

Tar

LMAO, that's about as funny as thinking a high score in a honey hole is actually the Hunt winner. Everyone deserves a fair shot and winning your cast is all anyone can do. No one deserves anything that they did not win, but a hunt winner should never be decided by a high score in one cast. Tar, if a dog gets sent home by getting beat by a dog with minus points, it deserves to be sent home. UKC Does not operate that way, I don't care how the other KCS operate. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by yadkintar on 05-28-2019 12:25 PM:

Dave the path you are going down whether you realize it or not is you will have dogs winning hunts that have not treed a coon the whole hunt. A major hunt in the final cast a couple weeks ago was won by a dog that kept advancing by not having plus points and in the final cast went in and blew the dog of the tree that treed the coon for the win. Only way you can keep things right ( kinda ) is make them know they are going to have to put some coons on the card to win.

Too much who done the least worst winners today.

Tar

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 05-28-2019 01:34 PM:

Tar don’t ignore me! When are you giving away 10 boxes? I can get a dog there and let Grayson AKA G-Man handle her, I really need a new box.

Posted by yadkintar on 05-28-2019 01:41 PM:

Starting a go fund me account I got to buy a lot of boxes so nobody feels left out 12 1/2 + and 30th place in the hunt you get a box.

Tarbaby

Posted by yadkinriver on 05-28-2019 04:23 PM:

Be careful Tim and read between the lines. Pretty sure that 30 place box is a cardboard box.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 05-28-2019 05:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkinriver
Be careful Tim and read between the lines. Pretty sure that 30 place box is a cardboard box.

Jack you haven’t seen mine lately, I bought it at SETWD 27 years ago, Iv rebuilt the bottom 2 times, it still holds dogs and I’m heading to Ohio Saturday but if I ever take it off the truck it will fall apart.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 05-28-2019 06:51 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Starting a go fund me account I got to buy a lot of boxes so nobody feels left out 12 1/2 + and 30th place in the hunt you get a box.

Tarbaby

In an elimination style hunt there is only one champion. Winning early and late casts in a row on multiple nights in a larger hunt separates the men from the boys and coondogs from the culls. No need in consolation prizes. Open hunts or slams going on for the original losers would give the host club or event a way to pull in additional $ while the big event is whittling down.

Posted by edwardfasteddy on 05-28-2019 09:34 PM:

Mafia,That's right, If you win the early round, the late round your in a cast with all winners right? Then if you win that round with all winners in it your going to be in the next cast with winners of winners cast, right? The farther you go the harder it gets.. Winning 5 casts you won it all! A dog with these titles on them like World Champion (UKC), didn't even win a cast with them Platinum Champions at the PKC World hunt. I think a Platinum Champion hunted with this level of dogs means more then a title on a dog that has been hunted with the same dogs with 4 or 6 dogs in the whole hunt at different clubs to get their big titles.. But that's just me! LOL!

Posted by Dave Richards on 05-28-2019 10:46 PM:

Jen Cummings

Lol. You can tell who has actually hunted and won in the cast winner elimination hunts by the.comments they post. Why anyone who actually wants to see the real winner of a hunt does not support a cast winner elimination style hunt is just plain blind. I can see why those who had the honey hole advantage like the high score winner concept, they only had to beat one cast to be the winner. All this ranting about winning with minus points is just plain nonsense and does not apply to UKC where you have to have plus points. High score one cast winner format has been and still is the most abused format possible. Who really thinks that this concept has not been abused by those who had access to the best hunting spots, leased land and paid guides to insure they hunted in the best spots to get that high score. Yes, the cast elimination style winner definitely separates the coonhunter and coondogs from the boys and culls. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by Sgraves on 05-29-2019 02:31 AM:

I like the cast elimination style better than other. But , take winter classic for instance, it will have to stay based on high scoring dog . Or does it have to do with the triple crown doings?

Posted by oldsouth123 on 05-31-2019 05:15 PM:

cast winners

Everyone is always talking about cast winner's plus or minus.In some of the hunts,i can take a full blooded 13'' broke beagle rabbit dog and win the world hunt with it. Hold him back and get him struck in,let him get after a rabbit and boo around while the others make a mistake .Some say he has to have a tree on the card,if so tree him and then minus him for leaving.Of course you have to enter him as crossbred and there you have. the new world ch. coonhound.You don't need plus points and who cares if he babbled.It's pitiful that it's come to this,and now their crying about having to actually tree a coon or beat one or two other cast to win a hunt

Posted by AAThoundhunter on 05-31-2019 07:16 PM:

"Everyone is always talking about cast winner's plus or minus.In some of the hunts,i can take a full blooded 13'' broke beagle rabbit dog and win the world hunt with it. Hold him back and get him struck in,let him get after a rabbit and boo around while the others make a mistake .Some say he has to have a tree on the card,if so tree him and then minus him for leaving.Of course you have to enter him as crossbred and there you have. the new world ch. coonhound.You don't need plus points and who cares if he babbled.It's pitiful that it's come to this,and now their crying about having to actually tree a coon or beat one or two other cast to win a hunt"

When was the last time you saw a world champion with 100-. Even if it did happen your beagle would never make it that far.

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