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Babbling fix all

True believer in the best dog should win a cast the majority of the time. But in your opinion does this happen when a babbling dog constantly gets a 100 strike points and does this make it the best dog? In my opinion the best coon dog is the one who trees the most coon. That being said would we not be better to make rules that would combat this issue. If we had a 30sec instead of a minute and any dog opening not having to be struck by handler results in all strike points being split. This is the only fair way I can see to fix a situation where people are breeding for dogs to strike out of the box and not shut up till they tree a coon. JMO

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Re: Babbling fix all

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Originally posted by Night Shift
True believer in the best dog should win a cast the majority of the time. But in your opinion does this happen when a babbling dog constantly gets a 100 strike points and does this make it the best dog? In my opinion the best coon dog is the one who trees the most coon. That being said would we not be better to make rules that would combat this issue. If we had a 30sec instead of a minute and any dog opening not having to be struck by handler results in all strike points being split. This is the only fair way I can see to fix a situation where people are breeding for dogs to strike out of the box and not shut up till they tree a coon. JMO

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I think the best way this could be addressed is if all strike points were worth 50. Dogs would still be held accountable for their strikes and the dog that trees the most coons without screwing up would win. However the rule that dogs that are continuously silent on track will be scratched will have to be Strickly enforced and could also use some improvement.

Sitting in the club house while the cast were out at a local hunt, some of us old geezers were talking about babbling dogs, we came up with the perfect way to handle the babbling dog. Put the strike points in reverse order, 1st strike gets 25 points, 2nd strike gets 50 points, 3rd strike gets 75 points and last strike gets 100 points. We were just joking about this, but I wonder how long it would take for someone to call there dog or blame someone for not calling a dog that is opening.

Re: Re: Babbling fix all

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Originally posted by Rip
No, don't give them any grace period.

Years ago they had something like a minute or two minutes ON THE FIRST DROP ONLY, then after that if they barked three times they had to be put on the paper.

It made it so much easier to send the babblers back to the house because you could still have your light on them and see them barking at the dog they were running beside for three barks LOL.

Now they are so far in it's hard to prove babbling.

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Wow every one of you are dead wrong about how to solve this!!!!! One simple, simple rule change will fix this and the way people breed, raise, and train thesedogs!!!! NO LEASH LOCK!!!!!! $! $$ DUUUUHHHHHH just look at the chkc final cast of the world hunt nobody complaining about ol 100&100 2 miles away that night!!!! While I'm not a chkc fan at all, I do think that they did get this right and it is so freakin retarded that the other kc's haven't gone this route, I just don't get it!!!

How about enforcing the rules you already have and everything will be fine.

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Originally posted by MUSKY
How about enforcing the rules you already have and everything will be fine.

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I know where there's a dog right now, that you can't ever minus him for babbling. He's 100 strike dog and he never shuts up. He barks here, and there the whole time he's running. He barks enough from the snap to the tree he'll never get minused. I can't stand a dog like that but you can't prove he's not on a track. Until there's a way to prove there's no track, he won't get minus. And I don't think there's a way to cure or rectify this. JMO

The only reason babbling becomes an issue is bcuz there's "WEAK" judging!

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We keep improving things. We have impoed the tree dogs to not need a coon in the tree and we have improved the track dogs to not need coon scent to track. Now if could just breed the mean ones to only fight with themselves we have accomplished something.

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Now if could just breed the mean ones to only fight with themselves we have accomplished something. [/B]

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Originally posted by Dogwhisper
The only reason babbling becomes an issue is bcuz there's "WEAK" judging!

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Trevor Hack
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Originally posted by Dogwhisper
The only reason babbling becomes an issue is bcuz there's "WEAK" judging!

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Trevor Hack
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The one minute grace rule back in the day didn't work and that is why the babbling rule got changed to the current rule. Whether it was by weak judging or weak moral character by the handlers it really doesn't matter. If we were working under non hunting judges it may be different but the application of today's rule or the old rule are the same, the judge has to make the call and one other person on the cast has to support him to make the judgement call stick. If there were less dogs babbling in today's dog then that would be a whole lot easier. I have said it before but I believe AKC's babbling rule worked the best from what I saw in our area, no strike accepted under the minute unless followed immediately by a tree call, and then all dogs barking at the end of the minute were split. They also didn't have a leash lock rule unless dogs were scored out of order for convenience. Those two rules took strike points out of the equation for the most part unless it was an honest first strike after the minute. Only down side was if the cast treed a coon in the first minute and then the dog with first tree was the only dog that could get strike points, but that isn't going to happen very many times. So all in all the coon tree'r had the advantage at the end of the hunt and it took the major advantage of the babbler away.

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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel

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Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
A true babbler cannot be minused, that's just the truth of the matter. The good babblers never shut up. Some of the big money winners in the other kc have it mastered. Ask them how many times they've been minused for babbling.

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Very few dogs around here anyway barked off the leash until the rules allowed them too. It will never be any easier to judge a dog then it is when you still have your lights on them.

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Originally posted by Jgarrett
That's the truth right there.

Rob's suggestion about no leash lock rule gives a dog a chance to over come the 1st set of strike points by treeing more coons than the babbler but they are recasting for 25 strike points most of the time and it is equal from that point on. Why not just make it equal to start out with and keep the leash lock rule so a cast has a chance to call time out and move. I personally like that a slick treer that is collecting circle has to spend some time on the leash.

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Jgarret, that slick treer shouldn't be getting circle points, he should be getting minus points. People talk about the babbler but they will not minus a dog for slick treeing. if the babbler and the slick tree dog would get the minus they deserve people would get a different dog to hunt.

Y'all are thinking of this all wrong, I don't have to prove they are babbling I just have to ask for a vote on it. The rest is up to the other members of the cast to take a screwing all night or put a stop to it.

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You get dogs that operate like dark they will start digging holes for those babblers you get in coons with dogs like her them babblers deep and alone are out of luck it's changing you will see.

the real problem is COMPETITION hunts. pleasure and hide hunters wont put up with that mouthy junk and they don't want to breed to it either and why would they? so when they do they are getting disappointed. all grand peds and truck winners and such is worthless when the pups come out with them traits as far as they are concerned. it drives a big wedge in makein progress in breeding.

Just cause they won all over the place don't make them something that a coon hunter wants to hunt and enjoy. it just makes a winner or it pays the bills.

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Originally posted by yadkintar
You get dogs that operate like dark they will start digging holes for those babblers you get in coons with dogs like her them babblers deep and alone are out of luck it's changing you will see.

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
the real problem is COMPETITION hunts. pleasure and hide hunters wont put up with that mouthy junk and they don't want to breed to it either and why would they? so when they do they are getting disappointed. all grand peds and truck winners and such is worthless when the pups come out with them traits as far as they are concerned. it drives a big wedge in makein progress in breeding.

Just cause they won all over the place don't make them something that a coon hunter wants to hunt and enjoy. it just makes a winner or it pays the bills.

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Originally posted by joey
Y'all are thinking of this all wrong, I don't have to prove they are babbling I just have to ask for a vote on it. The rest is up to the other members of the cast to take a screwing all night or put a stop to it.

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