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Hybrid vigor ?

What’s everybody’s take on it ? Does it just happen or can you make it happen ?



Tar

I believe that when we have been line breeding and inbreeding a strain of dogs then at some point to get hybrid vigor we must breed to a dog that is not related...

In the wild...
is there hybrid vigor when needed amongst the wildlife? I do not know...Mother Nature does not make mistakes when culling, so then maybe there is no need for hybrid vigor in the wild?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

What is hybrid vigor?

The only hybrid I'm familiar with is the mule. I don't know what a canine hybrid would be. I don't think a wolf-dog cross is considered a true hybrid. Maybe a dog -hyena cross? Is that what you're considering, Tar?

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Donald Bergeron

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What is hybrid vigor?

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The mule is a hybrid cross...a horse and a donkey can breed and reproduce but the offspring is always sterile so they can’t reproduce...

In dogs loss of hybrid vigor is due to inbreeding and line breeding relatives...there will be a higher amount of the same genes passed from each parent which is less diversification...a less diverse gene pool will get worse with each generation...producing smaller dogs, smaller testicles which causes lower sperm counts and smaller litters...puppies and dogs will have weakened immune systems so the possibility of dying early is more common...etc...etc...

The opposite of hybrid vigor is breeding depression or back in the old days it was called tired blood...

A walker crossed with a bluetick will produce hybrid vigor...

A line bred walker bred to a line bred walker from unrelated lines will produce hybrid vigor...my guess not as much hybrid vigor as with the bluetick and walker cross...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

So, all you have to do to get "hybrid vigor" is breed a walker to a bluetick? That sounds awfully easy. I wonder why everyone doesnt just do that?

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So, all you have to do to get "hybrid vigor" is breed a walker to a bluetick? That sounds awfully easy. I wonder why everyone doesnt just do that?

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I want some improvement.
Tar

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What you guys think about breeding a good walker female to an airedale or maybe a birddog? I has worked in the past and maybe by the time your down to 1/8 airedale might have a new line of coon dogs.

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Tom Wood

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
What you guys think about breeding a good walker female to an airedale or maybe a birddog? I has worked in the past and maybe by the time your down to 1/8 airedale might have a new line of coon dogs.

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Getting Hybird vigor and getting a coon dog are not the same,you can cross a jack on a mare and you will always get a mule....but there's no guarantee it will be a good mule! I've been in the middle of some that weren't .....

Yep. This hybrid vigor can be more vigorous than wanted.

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Donald Bergeron

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Originally posted by Cotton 1927
Getting Hybird vigor and getting a coon dog are not the same,you can cross a jack on a mare and you will always get a mule....but there's no guarantee it will be a good mule! I've been in the middle of some that weren't .....

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Hybrid vigor

Breeding a walker female that's a coon dog to a Bluetick that's a coon dog should get coon dogs, breeding coon dog to coon dog is how we got started and is what's needed to improve a stale line of dogs. Every breed was a combination of breeds in the beginning and every breed can use some outcrossing on another breed that has what you are looking for. At least we can now register these out crosses as cross breeds . Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So just what is "hybrid vigor"??? Can you get the "hybrid" without getting the "vigor"?

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Donald Bergeron

Tar, wouldn't a totally unrelated dog of your breed be just as good as different breed?

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Donald Bergeron

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Originally posted by shadinc
With mules they're stronger than either parent, live longer, work longer without tiring, eat less and less prone to diseases.

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Mr. Lambert

Hunting style, tracking ability, ( nose ), mouth ALL of these things have something to do with being a coon dog. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

[QUOTE]Originally posted by yadkintar
Tom you remember Vernon waterson he is gone now but he had a half Airedale half walker could tree any kind of coon and I never walked to an empty tree that he had first tree on. [/QUOTE

Tar what kinda mouth did he have? I am seriously thinking
about making such a cross. But at 70 don't know if I have energy to see it thru.

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Tom Wood

German short hair pointer. Forget that Bluetick nonsense. Put some heads up nose ability and brains in the pups.

English pointer if you don’t care about the brains. But the buggers will have some wheels.

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
Tar, wouldn't a totally unrelated dog of your breed be just as good as different breed?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Maybe therein lies the problem. Being stronger, less tired, eating less and less prone to disease while being great attributes, has very little to do with being a good coon dog.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So, all you have to do to get "hybrid vigor" is breed a walker to a bluetick? That sounds awfully easy. I wonder why everyone doesnt just do that?

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So it doesn't "just happen"? I wonder how often it happens? Does it happen once in every litter or once in every 4 or 5 litters? Is there a way to increase your odds of getting a pup with hybrid vigor? And for the purpose of this discussion, I think that Tarbaby is talking about a better coon dog than both of its parents rather than a stronger, more hardy coon dog.