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All Grand Pedigrees?

I think the respect for Grand Nites with all Grand Pedigrees has really decreased in recent years. I remember getting magazines and drooling over 3 gen all Grands, then 4 gen all grands and then 5 gen all grands.

If my feelings are correct. What caused the decline in the popularity of dogs having this type of pedigree.

1. The dogs being more man made to get the title hung on it than earning the title by treeing coon.

2. Due to the limited number of dogs that can carry on and be a part of an all Grand Pedigree. Too much family breeding took place.

3. Am, I seeing this all wrong and the title still is a cherished title.

What got me to thinking about this is a friend wanting to breed to a female I have here. He was going to borrow her to breed to some frozen semen he had from years ago.
Anyway when she came in we had some scheduling conflicts and it didn't look like we were going to be able to get the female to his place. Anyway I had no intentions of breeding her but when our deal started to fall through. I asked several friends form several different age groups which male I have here should I breed her to.
My choices were a proven male that can tree coon and has a 3 gen all grand pedigree. Two younger unproven males that are between 14 and 18 months of age.
Several said the older proven male. When asked why. No one from the younger generation said because of the pedigree as they didn't think the titles meant much. They chose the proven male because they have seen him tree coon and some of his offspring tree coon.
Some said one or the other of the young dogs. One guy mentioned to breed her to both young dogs and then through DNA register the pups accordingly. That actually clicked with me to be the best plan. But in the end I didn't breed her at all. This world has way to many coon hound puppies and not enough hunters.

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Re: All Grand Pedigrees?

1. The dogs being more man made to get the title hung on it than earning the title by treeing coon.

This world has way to many coon hound puppies and not enough hunters. [/B][/QUOTE]

I never have owned one I was right in the middle of the all grand movement never seen they was a bit better than anybody else's. Somes kennel manners were horrible that is a deal breaker with me.




Tar

In terms of Title Accomplishments, I always thought the ultimate was an all grand litter, where every pup in a litter of 6 or more, all earned the GrNtCh title. The first Harry X Abby cross did it and that was the first one I knew of. Almost every male from that litter was a successfull stud if you count success by the number of bitches bred. But I suppose the question would be, were they bred because they were produces of better dogs or because of their outstanding papers? Most of the females from that all grand litter were known as reproducers of that means anything.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

A lot of people started concentrating on the All Grand Pedigree and forgot about the dogs. They started breeding papers. And to get the All Grand, they "made" a couple of the dogs a Gr Nt just so it would look good on the pedigree.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
A lot of people started concentrating on the All Grand Pedigree and forgot about the dogs. They started breeding papers. And to get the All Grand, they "made" a couple of the dogs a Gr Nt just so it would look good on the pedigree.

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Personally I would make a cross because I think it will produce nice hounds whether it’s all grand or not. I’ve seen some Gr Nt dogs I ain’t sure could tree a **** coon lmao. I usually watch for a person that successfully hunts his own line of dogs not someone with deep pockets who buys a wore out stud dog trying to make a name for them self. Jmo

all grand

The all grand craze was driven mostly by MONEY and there's no money in the stud dog business today but there are some nice all grand dogs just the same as not all grand and finally there is a litter of bluetick pups listed for sale on ukc and pkc for500.00 and they booked them in a couple of days after they were advertised they are out of 2 nice dogs and I don't think they are all grand

Its a selling point. If someone buys a pup in the blind without doing research or having knowledge of the lineage, it gives them some hope that since its all grand it has a better chance of becoming a coondog. They'll be a bunch sold at AO in a couple weeks based solely off this ideaoligy..

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Shane

All grand pedigree isn't everything but at the same time if it is an all grand pedigree wouldn't ya think that most of the dogs in the pedigree actually tree coon..
Now if it has a pedigree with no titles how many do dogs in that pedigree could tree a coon? Idk either
I don't need all grand but I don't care for no titles either.

One of the guys I hunt with some, claims his doesn't give two hoots about titles but for some reason when he gets a new pup he'll shove the papers in front of anyone that'll look and point to the titles.

All grand = sales pitch!!!!!

If there was anything to it after 25 years of breeding for it wouldn't they be a few generations deeper than they are? What is the most all grand out there ??? Should be quite a few 10+ by now with all the early starters and as easy as these titles are to obtain.

Just a fact a lot of times the easy entry card was in a different state when the dog was still at home seen that with my own peepers. That's why they were to valuable to hunt still that way.



If they thought they were going to get caught they withdrew before draw numbers being low at clubs helped that.



Tar

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Just a fact a lot of times the easy entry card was in a different state when the dog was still at home seen that with my own peepers. That's why they were to valuable to hunt still that way.



If they thought they were going to get caught they withdrew before draw numbers being low at clubs helped that.



Tar

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Now Tim what can you do if they withdraw and don't play the big dummy you know where those clubs were to title those dogs out those clubs were set up for that and I know you know that we know what they knew lol.




We talked about it me and you.

Tar

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Now Tim what can you do if they withdraw and don't play the big dummy you know where those clubs were to title those dogs out those clubs were set up for that and I know you know that we know what they knew lol.

We talked about it me and you.

Tar

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I know of dogs that was titled and was never there but there not in any All Gn papers that I know of, I would like to know who They are that did it to produce an All Gn cause I won’t to stay away from it. Tar you know I make these post to get answers, not just hear say!

Mr Tim.

Cheyenne Cummings has an all grand that is coondog, won all over and throws the right kind. Makes me laugh when I see these conversations on here and never see any of you in the magazine.......

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GRNTCH PKC SCH BACKWATER BANJO

Rob who jerked your chain thought you were a big time $$$ man I see your picture once in a while try smileing little you ole grouch lol.



Tar

We own 2 all grand GRNITE dogs and some pups that are all grand pedigrees. Probably 90% of those that have bred to our dogs have no idea that they are all Grands until they see their pedigrees and not why they have chosen them. Studs are choose on performance in the woods, winning hunts and pups out of them being successful. I believe that a handful with fake titles or suspected fake titles and dogs being deemed to valuable to hunt after the title was earned even if it was legit turned many away from the all grand pedigrees. I have found that the older generation is much more likely to check and study pedigrees compared to the younger.
Jen

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
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My next pup will be from Mr. Cummings. Not because his dog is all grand but because of what he’s producing!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ashley Pratt
My next pup will be from Mr. Cummings. Not because his dog is all grand but because of what he’s producing!!

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Rob who jerked your chain thought you were a big time $$$ man I see your picture once in a while try smileing little you ole grouch lol.



Tar

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GRNTCH PKC SCH BACKWATER BANJO

you don't have to a all grand pedigree (but it helps) you don't have to have thousands of acres to hunt (but it helps) you don't have to have a fancy light (but it helps) you don't have to have a tracking system (but it helps) you don't have to have a buggy (but it helps especially when getting older) i could go on and on if it helps ? lol

Na you don't need to, but it helps....

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GRNTCH PKC SCH BACKWATER BANJO