UKC Forums - Acording To History

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-- Acording To History (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=225338)

Posted by on 08-26-2008 06:45 AM:

Acording To History

DID YOU KNOW ACORDING TO AMERICAN HISTORY THAT THE VERY 1ST COONHOUND IN AMERICA WAS A BLUETICK!!! I KNOW EVERYONE THINKS THE ENGLISH FOX HOUND, BUT THEY WERE NOT COONHOUNDS THEY WERE FOXHOUNDS. I KNOW EVERYONE THINKS THAT BLUETICKS CAME FROM ENGLISH, BUT THAT ISN'T TRUE ACCORDING TO HISTORY. THE DOGS THAT WE CALL ENGLISH TODAY WERE NOT THE ENGLISH FOXHOUNDS THEY BROUGHT OVER HERE. THE REAL ENGLISH FOXHOUNDS ACCORDING TO HISTORY ARE WHAT WE CALL TREEING WALKERS TODAY. LOOK IN HISTORY AT ANY FOXHOUND AND SEE IF THEY ARE NOT TRI-COLORED DOGS AND NOT RED TICKED. THE FACT IS THAT GENERAL LAFIATE GAVE OUR 1ST AMREICAN PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON A PAIR OF FRENCH BLUETICK COONHOUNDS THAT WERE PURE BREED AND NOT CROSSED. THE FACT IS THAT THE CROSSING STARTED WITH THE TRI-COLORED DOGS AND THE BLUETICKS. THATS WERE THE RED TICK CAME FROM. DON'T KNOW WHY THE FOXHOUNDS CHANGED NAMES TO WALKERS, BUT I DO KNOW THAT THE CROSS BREED RED TICKS TOOK THE NAME ENGLISH. THE FACT IS BLUETICKS WERE PURE BREED TO START WITH AND NOT CROSSED. THATS AMERICAN HISTORY!!!

Posted by ladycoonhuntr on 08-26-2008 07:06 AM:

Is this what you are Refering to?

The fine French hounds of the Gascogne, Porcelaine, Saintongeois and others had been brought to America even before colonial times. These patient, persistent, beautifully voiced hounds continued to be bred in fairly pure form in remote areas of the South.
During the early decades of this century, dog dealers made trips into the Louisiana bayou, the Ozark Mountains and other isolated areas, bringing out hounds of remarkably pure type. These dogs, mainly of the heavily ticked blue color, were often referred to as Blue Gascons or French Staghounds. Crossed with various foxhounds and curs, they formed the basis of the UKC Bluetick Coonhound.

Because the Bluetick Coonhound were registered as English Coonhounds along with dogs of a very different type, distinct strains of these blue dogs became famous. The Ozark Mountain strain was said to be the closest to pure French and came to prominence in the 1930s. Famous dogs of this strain included "Missouri Valley Echo," "Bailey's Blue Dollar" and "Grant's King Bo."

In the 1920s, the Sugar Creek strain began, with dogs of this bloodline remaining today. They have some old-type Black and Tan in their makeup and are very like the French hounds in their style of hunting. Famous Sugar Creek hounds included the peerless "Blue Bones," who won the first field trial for coonhounds in 1924, and later "Top Notch Drum," "Huey Long," and the prepotent "Cornerstone." Bloodhound, Bluetick, and Porcelaine, as well as Gascogne blood, flowed through the veins of the Old Line strain, another very famous line which included the studs: "Lee's Troop," "Florida Blue" and "Green's Panther." The Bluetick Coonhound dogs were much sought after during the late 1930s and the War years, but Old Line is simply gone. The Smokey River and Bugle strains were also prominent in the development of the breed.

Breeders of these blueticked dogs wanted to keep their old style of hunting. They feared a trend to make the majority of hounds registered as English faster and more hot-nosed. To maintain the old-fashioned type, they officially broke away in 1945 and established the breed known as the Bluetick Coonhound.

For a time, blueticked pups from a litter could be registered as Blueticks, and the re-dticked whelps became English Coonhounds. But soon the stud books were closed, and this practice was no more.

Bluetick Coonhounds still have devout followers and are fine coonhounds. But some owners feel these dogs recently have given way to the current trend of foxhound type and speed in order to participate in the competitive events, as the English hound did before them. Those who want the original big, cold-nosed, old-fashioned type have thus converted to the Blue Gascon and the Majestic.

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Posted by ladycoonhuntr on 08-26-2008 07:24 AM:

Found on the UKC breeds page

It is most likely that the Bluetick is principally descended from the quick foxhounds of England with some introduction of the blood of various French hounds which were used for hunting big game. The French dogs were known as being very cold nosed. George Washington received five such French hounds from General Lafayette.

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Posted by jackbob42 on 08-26-2008 02:15 PM:

Re: Acording To History

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
.... THE FACT IS THAT GENERAL LAFIATE GAVE OUR 1ST AMREICAN PRESIDENT GEORGE WASHINGTON A PAIR OF FRENCH BLUETICK COONHOUNDS THAT WERE PURE BREED AND NOT CROSSED.

Do they even have coons in France? If not , how could they have been coonhounds?

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Posted by Larry Atherton on 08-26-2008 03:22 PM:

Bob,

Nope, they didn't have coons or coon hounds in France. Those fine blue dogs were used for rabbits, fox, and stag.

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Posted by on 08-26-2008 03:57 PM:

I bet them rabbits, fox and stag had a good laugh over that.....

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 08-26-2008 04:13 PM:

Please Before anyone else steps on their Taliewacker read the True History of these hound "Wolf, Eur. Browns, Hog."

They were the First hounds used in Africa used on big game .. They were used to Tree Leopards.
Here is the Site to open the French Sites in English..

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/

Just paste the Address in and convert from French to English

http://clubbleugascogne.free.fr/sommaire_principal.html

Here is another

http://grandbleudegascogne.blog4eve...ndex-46867.html

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Posted by Ray&Luie on 08-26-2008 04:26 PM:

Blue Dogs

I dont think the ariginal scent hounds loooked much of anything like what we have today, i,e coats of hair, color or body type
the crossing of gray hounds and sight hounds gave the slimmer built look you see, I love to talk about the history of hounds

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 08-26-2008 04:36 PM:

Here's Drum.. And I bet he Shook the Ground.. LOL

Posted by Ray&Luie on 08-26-2008 04:40 PM:

Porcelaine

The porcelaine hounds , where almost compleatly white wow, they did have walkers back then
slender built lanky long bodies , my kind of hound

Posted by Ray&Luie on 08-26-2008 04:42 PM:

look at this

http://www.porcelainefrenchscenthound.co.uk/index.html

this is interesting

Posted by Ray&Luie on 08-26-2008 04:48 PM:

Porcelaine

History of Origin

This noble and distinguished breed of scent hound is one of the oldest originating from France and the Swiss borders. Bred for hunting small deer, rabbits and hares and wild boar in some regions.

Believed to descend from the Montaimboeuf breed which is now extinct, possibly English harriers and the likeness of Swiss Laufhunds. The Porcelaine could be traced back as far as the 1600's although thought to be considerably older. Originally, examples were larger with coarser hair. The Porcelaine only continues it's revival due to the dedication and enthusiasm by the French and Swiss in 1845 following the Porcelaines depletion during the time of the French revolution in the 1700's.

The breed is said to have an established history connected to the monasteries and abbeys of Cluny and Luxeuil where they were kept by the monks.

In 1971 the Porcelaine club was established in France.

Research tells of the Rousseau family originally from the East of France who during the French revolution fled to Louisiana with their Porcelaines where they acquired a lot of land in the form of plantations. Over the following years the Porcelaine numbers had increased into hundreds where they would hunt on the plantations. Interestingly, an oil painting depicting a kill of a panther by some thirty one Porcelaine hounds set in Louisiana was displayed as part of an exhibition in Paris in 1906 by the family. With the end of the Civil War came the break up of many plantations, with the hounds being left to surrounding plantation owners as the family moved West. Despite the numbers of hounds, pure breeding of the Porcelaine was eventually lost here at this time, although it did go on to help create many American hound breeds.

The Porcelaine is still considered a rare breed and remains mostly native to France, Switzerland and Italy, the Porcelaines are fiercely and justly guarded by their proud nations and owners.

Posted by Majestic Tree H on 08-26-2008 04:49 PM:

They have had every Flavor of Hound 100s of years before we every had .. The French TriColor is over 300 years old and it still looks like our Treeing Walkers.. A huge amout of French Hounds flowed thru New Orl. LA. from the 1700s on .. So ofcourse they found their way north of their durring the fur trade.. The prob is we Americans kept ****e Records .. Other countries kept everything ..

Posted by Ray&Luie on 08-26-2008 05:04 PM:

saintongeois

This hound seems to be the split off that probubly gave us the fox hound, good looking breed
he did come from a cross off the Gascongne, so yeah if you want to say technically they did come from the blue dogs lol
interesting stuff though for sure, I guess we could really thank the french for what we have today also

Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-26-2008 05:21 PM:

I have seen so many different "origin of the coonhound" stories that were completely different that i believe almost every one of them are BS. I dont think anybody really knows.

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Posted by James200 on 08-26-2008 05:33 PM:

Russell..I must agree ! We humans rely on history to give us answers to many things we don't understand.....afterall history===HIS-STORY.

I have no clue as to where the "coonhound" originated but am happy we have them.

Posted by Ray&Luie on 08-26-2008 05:45 PM:

coon dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Russell Boyette
I have seen so many different "origin of the coonhound" stories that were completely different that i believe almost every one of them are BS. I dont think anybody really knows.

we sure dont know for-certain what was what but i think i could say without being to fare off base the early hounds where bread to do certain things, and as far as treeing coons , the early dogs where mainly for protection and hunting whatever would put food on the pioners table, even to hunt men, like indians and Slaves , people did just like they do today, they saw the traits they prefrred and cossed into those to get what they wanted.
so its upto us to separate facts from fiction and Legend from reality

as for me, if the breeds that we have today get to the point, they dont satisfiy our needs we will make the crosses or some one else will that will eventualy and probubly turn into a totaly diffrent breed than what we already have , and some one will be arguing 100 years or so if the good LORD tarrys about what they came from

it wont matter though cause some one will be saying we have ruined the breed and need to get back old ways lol

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-26-2008 10:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I bet them rabbits, fox and stag had a good laugh over that.....

LOL.......

Posted by on 08-27-2008 02:18 AM:

blueticks the american idol

blueticks are even patriotic in color, kinda makes me proud.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 08-27-2008 02:53 AM:

Re: blueticks the american idol

quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
blueticks are even patriotic in color, kinda makes me proud.

Brown, Gray, & Black? I thought we were the Red, White,& Blue?

Posted by John Wittenborn on 08-27-2008 04:22 AM:

I don't think that the coonhound orginated,

in any one particular region of the U.S. Their were many hide hunters scattered around the country & I would say that most of the dogs that were used on tree game, were more like what we refer to as curs. Then they started mixing scent hounds with the treeing curs, thats when the coonhound that we know today started evolving (i.e. Tennessee Lead). I know that in this area when I was a kid, you very seldom seen a dog that was Bluetick in color. In the tree dogs of the late 30's & early 40's, there were alot of ringneck dogs called walkers, high tan Black & Tans, high yellow Redbones with a white spot on their chest, & any ticked up dog was refered to as an English.

A lot of hide hunters that were using scent hounds of some sort for trailing, including burned out fox hounds, would also have a cur, or a shepard, or a collie for their tree dog.

One of the all time great stud dogs, supposedly had collie in him, & if he did, I would say that it showed in a couple of places on him & his immediate offsping.

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Posted by MikeO on 08-27-2008 04:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Russell Boyette
I have seen so many different "origin of the coonhound" stories that were completely different that i believe almost every one of them are BS. I dont think anybody really knows.

al gore invented the coonhound!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Travis Stirek on 08-27-2008 04:41 AM:

Re: I don't think that the coonhound orginated,

quote:
Originally posted by John Wittenborn

One of the all time great stud dogs, supposedly had collie in him, & if he did, I would say that it showed in a couple of places on him & his immediate offsping.

Long live Hillbilly Mac and Thank God for Collie brains LOL

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Posted by Travis Stirek on 08-27-2008 04:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by MikeO
al gore invented the coonhound!!!!!!!!!!!!

With a little help from Tommy Lee Jones LOL

Posted by John Wittenborn on 08-27-2008 05:06 AM:

Travis,

wrong dog, but might be related, I don't know????????????

Don't get me wrong, I very much respected the dog for what he contributed to his particular breed.

I'm not color blind, nor am I blind as to what line of dogs within a certian breed of dogs is the best, if that sucker can do the job from go a hunting by its self, strike, trail, & tree the coon, & is not mean in any way, they can eat my dog feed anytime. Heck I might even let it sleep in the utility room.

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