UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Who else believes ? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928517524)

Who else believes ?

That the day a pup is born it is born with its reproducing top coondogs ability. And that hunting them has no bearing on how well they reproduce it only makes us feel better when we breed them.


Tar

Totally agree the day they are born they are all they are going to be.... shocking for covering another dog, whipping them to go hunting, hunting them by themselves to make them independent is all bs... they are born that way. The most independent dog I ever hunted with was very rarely cast by itself.

__________________
Wayne Musgrave

Home of:
A couple old plugs

The best pressure tree dog I ever owned was a Grand Nite that was never hunted one nite alone in his entire life. Its the genes they are born with that gives them the desire to go hunting, the ability to trail good, the desire to look up a tree and bark a lot, their voice, size, color and every thing about all hunters do is teach them to lead and jump on a tailgate. Folks talk about training a dog, you dont all you do is take them to the woods and turn them loose with a older dog.

__________________
Jim Garrison-The Plott Promoter
Home of Hall of fame Grand Nite Ch.
Garrisons Brindle Ranger.
Gr. Nt. Ch. Garrisons Brindle Hobo
Gr. Nt. Ch. Garrisons Brindle Luke
Gr. Nt. Ch. Garrisons Brindle Honey
Nite Ch. Garrisons Brindle Lead Nite Ch. Garrisons Brindle Belle
Nite Champion Garrisons Brindle Buckshot HTX
At Stud Grand Nite Ch. Garrisons Brindle Trax

Gotta agree with Wayne and Jim.......

I do believe they are born with the genes they will pass on. I also believe there is more to training one then turning it loose.

__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

Re: Who else believes ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
That the day a pup is born it is born with its reproducing top coondogs ability. And that hunting them has no bearing on how well they reproduce it only makes us feel better when we breed them.


Tar

---

Well TAR that is a scientific fact.

Hunting them in no way increases their ability to reproduce. This is in the DNA end of story.

That said, the only way to have an idea of what genes they have to pass on is to look and see the traits the parents show.

__________________
Let's go huntin

What I am saying to prove my point is. One of those females in that video that Corey put on the other thread is a littermate to my female she never was hunted over 25 times till she was bred and she is the mother of the Fred dog I got through the zones that was 3 yrs ago she is coming six and she hasent been hunted since. The other night she struck behind the dogs we just figured she was running junk till we heard her catch the coon the other dogs came back to her. We treed 5 more and she ran and treed on all and they didn’t beat her by much lol. How many dogs are setting in somebody’s pen that have never been given a chance would do the same thing I think more than we realize because they were born with it.


Tar

Tarbaby, that is true in the world of pleasure hunting but in today's world of comp hunting, it takes a lot more than just the ability to tree a coon to be a big winner. And a dog has to be "trainable".
How do you know that a dog has the ability if it is just sitting in a pen? Do you think that because a dog has a very nice littermate that it automatically also possesses the same ability? Do all of the pups in a litter posses the same genes when they are born? If so, then their training is the only difference. If not then how do you know which one has the most/best ability if you don't hunt them?

I believe a lot of personality, desires and other things that I don't have words for are instilled in the unborn, all animals including dogs and humans. The same way we are all affected at the time of birth

Here is another one Richard all remember a big bluetick breeder here named Carl Cassie he gave me and James petty an 8 yr old female that had never been hunted just a pup raiser we went to go hunting and she was going crazy so we took her in 60 days she was treeing coons on everything we had and made ntch with 3 first place wins. I seen it a bunch.



Tar

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Here is another one Richard all remember a big bluetick breeder here named Carl Cassie he gave me and James petty an 8 yr old female that had never been hunted just a pup raiser we went to go hunting and she was going crazy so we took her in 60 days she was treeing coons on everything we had and made ntch with 3 first place wins. I seen it a bunch.



Tar

---

Can different pups in a litter be affected by the birth process? Do some of them lose a lot of brain cells from a lack of oxygen during birth? Can this cause different intelligence levels in pups from the same litter? It seems to me that some pups in a litter are smarter than others.

quote:

---

Originally posted by sleepy head
I must not understand your original ? Bc this has nothing to with "reproducing top coondog abilities"

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Can different pups in a litter be affected by the birth process? Do some of them lose a lot of brain cells from a lack of oxygen during birth? Can this cause different intelligence levels in pups from the same litter? It seems to me that some pups in a litter are smarter than others.

---

Sleepy, Tarbaby can be hard to understand but what I think that he is saying is that females are born with their natural reproducing abilities and hunting or training them does not affect this.

Every post in a thread doesn't necessarily have to have anything to do with the original post. Sometimes threads wander off the original course. Some of us tend to babble.

Preaching to the choir here Tar! Though I will say it would never be my 1st choice to raise a litter or buy a pup from unproven stock........be it coon hounds, beagles, bird dogs,etc.

__________________
Dan

quote:

---

Originally posted by sleepy head
I must not understand your original ? Bc this has nothing to with "reproducing top coondog abilities"

---

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

But if you went to school or were trained, you would be a big petroleum engineer dummy.
If you took a female that was a me too pack dog and trained her to be an independent loner will her pups be pack dogs or loners?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vic Stoll
...All that counts is in tarbaby’s mind, it makes perfect sense!

---

A dog will reproduce the same quality pups whether they are never hunted or not. Training dont improve genetics.

But genetics alone dont produce coon dogs. I dont think that a person makes a coondog so much as most people find away to mess up coondogs in making. Why same guys always has coon dog when others have littermate but never have coondogs.

Side Note... I know of Blue dog that's chop both ways and a covering machine. But have hunted with pups of his out 3 different litters and every pup has huge bawl track mouth. Some are even bawl on tree. And 80% of pups have been very independent. Raising pups is roll of dice at best.

__________________
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Bayou Creek Black and Tan’s

Nathan Phenix
417-255-5697

quote:

---

Originally posted by Nathan Phenix
A dog will reproduce the same quality pups whether they are never hunted or not. Training dont improve genetics.

But genetics alone dont produce coon dogs. I dont think that a person makes a coondog so much as most people find away to mess up coondogs in making. Why same guys always has coon dog when others have littermate but never have coondogs.

Side Note... I know of Blue dog that's chop both ways and a covering machine. But have hunted with pups of his out 3 different litters and every pup has huge bawl track mouth. Some are even bawl on tree. And 80% of pups have been very independent. Raising pups is roll of dice at best.

---

I had just this morning said to my wife that I was sure that the ability was there from the genetics but that environment and experiences had a lot to do with whether a dog made a coon dog. I also think I would rather have a dog that naturally had high intelligence rather than high desire to tree. I think the intelligent dog makes the really good dog. But hey, I'm just a big dummy like Tar so what I think might not be right!!!

__________________
Tom Wood

With all thats being said there might be a dud in the litter that would pass on it's faults that you would never know about unless it's hunted. Thats the reason I want a pup out of a good female.

I want a pup that is out of a good female that is out of a good female that is out of a good female that is out of a good female that is out of a good female....