UKC Forums - Allen something eating at me.

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-- Allen something eating at me. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928505397)

Posted by awolf on 06-13-2018 11:56 PM:

Tar.. I agree with you. The kc's need to get together on this. If you can't hunt at any kc it might cure the situation!

Posted by awolf on 06-13-2018 11:56 PM:

Tar.. I agree with you. The kc's need to get together on this. If you can't hunt at any kc it might cure the situation!

Posted by yadkintar on 06-13-2018 11:58 PM:

Chuck the bad thing is intimidation and bullying is part of the game for the advanced handlers now. Mix that with a hot head and unfortunately you don't know it's happened till it's over that's when that person needs to be taken out of the game across the board and be made an exzample of I know a lot of good folks that don't hunt in the hunts just because of this. Where I grew up in south Texas all time was hard time gatesville youth penitentiary, Huntsville the big house where you got a white suit and a hoe on the side of the road in the hot sun you thought about that before you messed up jmo.

Tar

Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2018 12:51 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Chuck the bad thing is intimidation and bullying is part of the game for the advanced handlers now. Mix that with a hot head and unfortunately you don't know it's happened till it's over that's when that person needs to be taken out of the game across the board and be made an exzample of I know a lot of good folks that don't hunt in the hunts just because of this. Where I grew up in south Texas all time was hard time gatesville youth penitentiary, Huntsville the big house where you got a white suit and a hoe on the side of the road in the hot sun you thought about that before you messed up jmo.

Tar

All true there Tar, do you think we are making progress as coon hunters or are we regressing. My opinion is we have way better technology and equipment. But man our people skills and the way we treat others is in the toilet. Now I am very blunt and brutally candid most of the time but that has always been my nature. I do not go out of my way to offend others. But a good example is look at little leauge all the way through high school sports not just how the kids treat each other but the parents as well. Heck this may even need to be a seperate thread,

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When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Posted by Dave Richards on 06-14-2018 02:16 AM:

Chuck Allen

We may not be able to fix the World, but the KC`S can and should take strong action against CHEATERS and BULLIES assaulting someone. It's only a matter of time before something real bad happens at a hunt due to someone assaulting another person. Talk about liability to the KC`S then, if it is proven that this kind of behavior was condoned in the past! All of the KCS should immediately implement a POLICY that bars CHEATERS and BULLIES that physically assault another person for LIFE, ZERO TOLERANCE. Dave

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Posted by yadkintar on 06-14-2018 02:19 AM:

I said this on anouther forum but I will say it again :

You go to a big hunt you see that old man setting over there by himself can y'all see him ? He just is there just because he wants to be a part of it he probly fought for your freedom, he might have built that nice clubhouse your in he might have been a part of breeding that dog your hunting and he might not have a very good dog to hunt now because of health issues but he enters because loves it he don't care if he wins you getting the picture can you see him now ? And Sombody goes out there and disrespects that man in the woods !! When all you got to do is at the hunt go up and talk dogs with him or buy him a cup of coffee and he is happy. Yeah right now ole tar is mad and it's enough. I don't care who stops it as long as it stops.

Respectfully

Tar

Posted by Ralph Williams on 06-14-2018 02:48 AM:

Re: Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
This very topic was one that I was personally adamant about when I came to work at UKC in 2004. After a special meeting on this topic and listening to all the legalities of it, it became apparent that it would not be in the best interest of any kennel club to suspend people for something that isn't directly related to your own affiliated events.

Sure wish we could as it would likely be a huge positive for the sport overall.

Seems if it was written in the rules area or any area for that matter then the guilty participants wouldn’t have a leg to stand on!

__________________
Ralph Williams

Posted by Dave Richards on 06-14-2018 02:49 AM:

Tar

Well stated, it's time we all got mad and put a stop to ALL BULLYING. Chuck said it, we all need to police our own ranks, the registries can not do it alone. Legal action should be taken against anyone assaulting another person. In addition, the offense must be reported to the registry involved, that puts the registry on notice regarding the person involved. Failure to take action on their part, would indeed create liability for that person's future actions at one of their events. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Posted by l p w on 06-14-2018 03:06 AM:

Barring

I was raised to respect all people and I do not agree at all with cheating anyone. I can not believe that people would get into a fist fight over a competition coon hunt. People will do anything to get a win and on the other hand will do anything to keep someone else from winning if they can’t win. I personally like seeing good dog work whether it’s mine or someone else’s. I have a boy 12 years old that is starting to get a taste of the hunts and he likes them and they shouldn’t have to put up with cheats. I hope the kc,s get a hold on this before someone gets seriously hurt. It’s hard to believe people could take a competition that serious. Tar I don’t know you at all but I enjoy reading your posts and have a lot of respect for you for being straight forward with people on this board. My grandpa always told me don’t mess with old men they will hurt you.

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2018 03:18 AM:

Tar and Dave good posts and I am now up too speed on things , Coon hunting is and should be fun for everybody. Tolerating this kind of behavior is exactly the kind of silver bullet the anti's will use against us, worse than you tube/facebook etc. This is a PR nightmare in the making of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS! I do not care what breed or kind of dog one hunts or ones KC of choice either. This HAS to stop! RIDICULOUS is putting it Mildly! I stay in contact with some of my buddies back east and if even 1/4 of what they hear is true much less what they have actually seen with their own eyes! Well we have a problem , that will have a very negative effect on the sport we all love. JMHO

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Posted by ahallada on 06-14-2018 03:52 AM:

There was a 16 year old kid barred for 6 months for questioning a call at a Youth World Hunt last weekend. He lost the question and was barred for 6 months. So do you want to bar this same kid from all KCs for questioning a call?

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2018 04:00 AM:

QUESTIONING A CALL THAT IS KINDA STEEP AIN'T IT?

__________________
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When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Posted by ahallada on 06-14-2018 04:04 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Allen
QUESTIONING A CALL THAT IS KINDA STEEP AIN'T IT?

i thought so too. Funny thing is the kid was right and the panel was wrong. lol

Posted by awolf on 06-14-2018 04:38 AM:

Only in Ada Oklahoma

Posted by rghnd123 on 06-14-2018 04:43 AM:

Logic

Tar, by your logic, if I get a speeding ticket from the Louisiana State Police then I should receive one from each state. It's going to be hard to bar/suspend an individual for something they haven't done. The big payouts at the hunts today are causing a big part of the problem. When people can go hunt and win more at a big hunt than they make in a year they are going to do whatever it takes to win. But, when you have a dying sport things have to be done to draw interest.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 06-14-2018 05:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ahallada
There was a 16 year old kid barred for 6 months for questioning a call at a Youth World Hunt last weekend. He lost the question and was barred for 6 months. So do you want to bar this same kid from all KCs for questioning a call?

No all kc's should not follow the position that if you are barred in one you should be barred in all. Each kennel club comes with it's own rules and regulations. I also find it ridiculous what happened to this youth to save face for a judges actions. Yes we all know that if you loose a panel decision on questioning whether a tree is circle or minus to cut out frivolous questions was put in with good intentions , no one counted on it being abused like it was during a youth world hunt.
Tar is talking about a good man that was blindsided by an actual physical assault during hunt time of a cast this week (same kc as youth)This did not happen off the grounds or while pleasure hunting afterwords but during cast both of which have had different rulings in other kc's with no consistency and in one case overstepped boundaries by the ruling. With the lack of consistency of suspensions across the board a broad policy of being barred in one making you barred in all I would never recommend. What I would recommend is a narrow policy that those guilty of the most extreme circumstances that instead of competing for customers the various kc's actually communicate with each other for the better of the sport.

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Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 06-14-2018 05:20 AM:

Anyone

Anyone ever hear of Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact??
Google IWVC to find out more
This is an agreement between most of the states where if ones hunting privileges are suspended in one state you won't be able to buy a hunting license in the other states, most states are into this now.

So maybe the powers at the KC's could use their methods and figure something out to combat the Bullying being done in our great sport of comp hunting coonhounds.

this IWVC is fairly new, but maybe we could convert their methods to our sport

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Posted by yadkintar on 06-14-2018 01:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
No all kc's should not follow the position that if you are barred in one you should be barred in all. Each kennel club comes with it's own rules and regulations. I also find it ridiculous what happened to this youth to save face for a judges actions. Yes we all know that if you loose a panel decision on questioning whether a tree is circle or minus to cut out frivolous questions was put in with good intentions , no one counted on it being abused like it was during a youth world hunt.
Tar is talking about a good man that was blindsided by an actual physical assault during hunt time of a cast this week (same kc as youth)This did not happen off the grounds or while pleasure hunting afterwords but during cast both of which have had different rulings in other kc's with no consistency and in one case overstepped boundaries by the ruling. With the lack of consistency of suspensions across the board a broad policy of being barred in one making you barred in all I would never recommend. What I would recommend is a narrow policy that those guilty of the most extreme circumstances that instead of competing for customers the various kc's actually communicate with each other for the better of the sport.

You said it where anybody could understand it you always make sense !!

Tar

Posted by thomasg on 06-14-2018 02:20 PM:

like most of you i viewed the fight that was posted on face book that involved the 2 from the sambo incident . what i found shocking was the amount of people that stood by and watched it going on . this is the kind of society will live in now days. so i guess if you go to a hunt better be prepared to defend your self or take a beat down like the guy in oklahoma.

Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2018 02:51 PM:

Another question that i find puzzling about the $KC hunts where does the money come from , I have only been to 1 $KC hunt, and I am not against them not my thing is all , just curious about the business model is all , but it seems to me that certain KC'S have defied the odds and continued to grow and have even added another KC from 2008-2016 during the worst economic downturn since the 1970's at least then coon hides were worth something and a lot of people where able to stay afloat due to that.

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Posted by Donnie Stevens on 06-14-2018 03:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by thomasg
like most of you i viewed the fight that was posted on face book that involved the 2 from the sambo incident .

Are you kidding me.....

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 06-14-2018 03:42 PM:

I am sure glad that I don't hunt in that Kennel Club's hunts. I would hate to have to fight to win a hunt. It is bad enough when your dog has to fight to stay treed but having to fight another handler is ridiculous. It would be awful if we had to start carrying a firearm to protect ourselves while on a comp hunt. Thank goodness that kind of thing doesn't happen in UKC hunts.

Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2018 04:19 PM:

Ladies and Gentlemen and I use that term loosely and far too often! It sounds to me like Marcells monkey may have to start carrying 2 pistols one for the dogs and one for the handlers. WOW who'd of thunk it! LOL

Seriously though these type incidents are not good for our sport its reputation and those that truly love it. JMHO

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Posted by thomasg on 06-14-2018 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
Are you kidding me.....

its a violent crazy world we live in today . trade towers .school shootings . las vegas . who would have thought 30 years ago such things could happen? look over seas at europe now . gangs mobs and criminals are taking over . i would hate to be shot at the coon club drinking my coffee cause some wacko went off his rocker .

Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2018 06:30 PM:

90% OF COON HUNTERS AND PEOPLE IN GENERAL TRY THEIR BEST TO DO THE RIGHT THING. BUT EVERY ORGANIZATION HAS THEIR 10%. Out of any platoon of Marines I ever had there were always 2-3 that got extra special attention from their squad and team leaders and when they gave up on them , they got some extra, extra special attention from the command group. The point is sometimes on the spot counseling works and sometimes it doesn't. Bad news never gets better with time. JMHO

__________________
The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

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