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-- Adviser vs. rule book (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928510883)

Adviser vs. rule book

We had a discussion this week about this and I would like to hear your opinions on this.

Here's mine if it's not in the rule book or on the back of the scored then as master hounds or judges in the cast we shouldn't have to worry about having to look in the Adviser for the answer. If we are having to use it as a third source then they should be sent to each club so that they have it on hand. Just my two cents for what it is worth.

__________________
shawn stovall
wyandotte, ok
shawnstovall2001@yahoo.com
918-961-2434
Home to:
Pr S&J's Shack's Backwoods Patches (walker)
'PR' Stovall's Black Knight Wild Willy
Past Home to:
dual grand stovall's black knight george (gone but not forgotten)
pr D&S' black little luke (1st and 3rd place wins) (davis black luke x paynes black june) gone but not forgotten
Dual Grand Davis' black hutch (gone but not forgotten)

The Adviser is the official UKC interpretation of the rules. The thing is have you ever encountered a handler who thought they know the rules, and don't want to hear what you have to say? For that very reason, I prefer to be able to show a handler the rule and UKC's interpretation in black and white. In fact, not only do I have both editions of the adviser, I also have a copy of all of Allen's columns from the Bloodlines since the last edition. This insures I have updated information.

I do think it would be a good thing for most clubs to have an Adviser, but that shouldn't be UKC's responsibility either.

__________________
Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

I think that some don't know what purpose the Advisor actually serves. It's simply a compilation of articles that were published in the Advisor Column of COONHOUND BLOODLINES throughout the years. Many of these articles include actual hunt scenarios that come with the rule(s) that apply to THE specific situation in question.

The Advisor also includes clarifications on rules and policies. That's it. It's basically a source for those who don't have a clear understanding of all rules and how they apply to different situations.

I have never seen an advisor and it never has hindered me in judging , controlling a cast , or my moh duties.



Plus I am mean 😡

Tar

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
...... those who don't have a clear understanding of all rules and how they apply to different situations....

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
That sounds to me like Tarspeak for "common sense".

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Where can I get a copy of the Advisor? I just went to my first competition hunt and would like one. Thanks.

__________________
Casey Knight
757-618-6496

quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Why do you troll tar everyday? Is that where you get all your talking points?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Why do you troll me everyday?

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New policy is occasionally made in the advisor. Driving to trees is a big one that comes to mind, anything in a trap or cage even empty being deleted is another one and now another big one open to major controversies not having to see it to scratch it. August 2018 a dog can be scratched for fighting or off game even if no one has seen it because all these judges should be so "honorable". There are many more that a MOH or handler may encounter that they won't find on the back of the card or in the rule book but are rules or interpretations that they may have never heard of if they don't study the advisor on a monthly basis.
I have said it many times but will say it again... There is absolutely no need for now multiple editions of the advisor, a rule book that is not free for all and rules on the back of the card. UKC should consolidate and review this advisor any new policy that can't be found in the rule book and all the printed rules should be in a FREE pamphlet that should fit on one piece of paper available to all clubs and hunters should be available. We are working on teaching a 6 year old the rules it shouldn't require 4 books to do it. How do we explain this or bring new comers to our sport?

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I have never seen an advisor and it never has hindered me in judging , controlling a cast , or my moh duties.



Plus I am mean 😡

Tar

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Never had to take but two questions back to the moh in 40 years and had very few questions brought back when I was moh. Maybe you Yankees just like to argue lol.




Tar

quote:

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.... We are working on teaching a 6 year old the rules ....[/B]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, I have been trying to learn the rules for 25+ years and I still don't know all of them.

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

Competition coonhunting is a complicated sport. There are so many scenarios that can happen and one simple rule cannot fit all of the scenarios. It can get very confusing. Especially for a simple mind like mine. These days you have 4 dogs doing 4 different things.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Competition coonhunting is a complicated sport. There are so many scenarios that can happen and one simple rule cannot fit all of the scenarios. It can get very confusing. Especially for a simple mind like mine. These days you have 4 dogs doing 4 different things.

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Rules

I agree with Jen, there is no way that the RULES should be this complicated. Now we all know that every RULE question brought up on this board get a variety of answers, even from experienced MOH'S . Some say they never have a problem with questions, yet they say they haven't looked at the ADVISOR and don't need to. I would like to know, how they know UKC'S position on certain issues that arise that aren't covered on the back of a scorecard? I would suggest that every club have a up to date ADVISOR to refer to, at least every MOH should have one. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

It's called common sense Dave !! From hunting in hunts , moh and judging for more years than most on here asking the rules have been alive. Good rule to follow that ain't wrote anywhere in ukc's library.


Don't try taken somthing that don't belong to you and everything will run smooth.


Tar

Tar

Dang it, I think you hit the nail on the head. We should be able to police ourselves, act like a man, take your minus, no questions asked. Honor should mean something more than a piece of paper, yellow, white, or $green. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

late 70's early 80's I judged a lot of hunts both UKC and ACHA as a teenager. My btain was better than at retaining info than it is now. I'm playing with the idea of getting back into it but not sure my brain can keep it all straight especially if I hunt mote than one KC. But I probably have more common sense now lol

quote:

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Originally posted by Allen / UKC
I think that some don't know what purpose the Advisor actually serves. It's simply a compilation of articles that were published in the Advisor Column of COONHOUND BLOODLINES throughout the years. Many of these articles include actual hunt scenarios that come with the rule(s) that apply to THE specific situation in question.

The Advisor also includes clarifications on rules and policies. That's it. It's basically a source for those who don't have a clear understanding of all rules and how they apply to different situations.

---

__________________
Casey Knight
757-618-6496

quote:

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Originally posted by Yogi33
Where can I buy a copy?

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Mr Gingerich, it is good to have you back. Will you be adding some more rule topics now that the format change fervor has died down?

And by the way, will you be working on the big $$$ Hunt formats now? When will the general public see something "official"? Will it be at The Grand American or are y'all going to wait until Winter Classic to unveil them?

and now another big one open to major controversies not having to see it to scratch it. August 2018 a dog can be scratched for fighting or off game even if no one has seen it because all these judges should be so "honorable".

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
GRCH GRNITECH PKC GCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMI-FINALIST. 2016 UKC TOP 20. 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE. 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4. 2018 MO PKC STATE CH
NITECH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION


I had to read this one twice ! Now i'm going to have to wait to get home to look in mag to see more details on this one .
This is ABSURD !!!!!

How in the world could a "judge" prove either of these ?

I have always thought that in UKC dogs could and should be scratched for fighting even if you did not see the fight. I know that in that other KC you have to actually "see" them but in UKC, that has never been the case. Apparently UKC handlers are more knowledgeable. They know when a fight breaks out. They don't have to actually see it. In PKC, if a fight breaks out handlers very slowly walk into the tree to give the dogs time to "settle their differences". In UKC, if a fight breaks out handlers run into the tree because they are going to get scratched anyway.