UKC Forums - New Rule On Scratched For Fighting Question

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-- New Rule On Scratched For Fighting Question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928524675)

Posted by Pat Bizich on 11-29-2019 12:56 AM:

New Rule On Scratched For Fighting Question

Okay . Got it that if dogs are leashed say at a tree or while on leash otherwise and a fight breaks out nobody gets scratched ? Correct?
Need a ruling on what to do in the following situation. This just recently actually happened on a hunt.
One dog lets call it Dog A has been treed and leashed. Tree is closed.
Dog C is still running.
Dog B comes into cover Dog A.
Before it can be caught a fight breaks out.
No one saw who started it.
So, one dog is leashed... one dog is not leashed.
WHAT DOG GETS SCRATCHED RULE IS FOLLOWED?
Nobody? Everybody.

New rule states dogs must be off leash to scratch.

I can see it now. Guy with Dog A cries but my dog was leashed you can't scratch me. You have to and can only scratch Dog B.
Then again maybe this is the answer???

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Posted by oklared on 11-29-2019 02:32 AM:

i would scratch both, just because a dog is leashed doesnt mean he didnt start fight because he's dominating tree, jmo

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 11-29-2019 03:53 AM:

I'd agree with you except for that darn new no scratch if on a leash rule.
Scuttle afterwards was that Dog B had been in a few other scuffles this past year. So I think that it probably was the instigator.
I'm thinking to enforce this no scratch ,both dogs would have to be on a leash . Other wise you get into too many scenarios of what if like this one.
IMO this does needs a clarification . It is a certainty that can possibly happen in future events.

Think about this though to everyone reading this.
What if Dog A was actually seen starting the fight?
Does it get a pass at not getting scratched because it was on a leash under this rule ?

Posted by shadinc on 11-29-2019 04:50 AM:

Why wouldn't he get a pass? If they're both on a leash they both get a pass.

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 11-29-2019 01:58 PM:

Re-Read the post....
Dog A was ….on a leash....
Dog B came into the tree and was not yet handled !
Dog B is …. Off the leash !
If Dog A starts the fight .
Does dog A get a pass because it is on a leash ?

Original post says no one saw who started fight .
So who gets scratched under one on ...one off .
Hardly be fair to scratch B just because it is off lead and A is on lead .
I am thinking that all dogs involved should have to be on the leash to escape a scratch.
Only fair way to handle . Will have to wait for the "Powers that Be" to render a decision .

Posted by pamjohnson on 11-29-2019 02:08 PM:

In this case both would get a pass. No scratch on the leash means just that nobody gets scratched as long as 1 is leashed. The only way anyone is getting scratched is if there rolled up fighting and someone wants to save there dog. Otherwise the rules pretty much made us blind,deaf and dumb.

Posted by Jack Bingham on 11-29-2019 02:09 PM:

dog B is scratched. Dog A gets a lucky break

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-29-2019 03:17 PM:

Now the dog that covers late will not only get ate, he will get scratched for fighting. I guess that they will have to get some new t-shirts printed up.

Posted by oklared on 11-29-2019 03:30 PM:

IF MY DOG WAS AN ALLEGATOR ID GET A LEASH ON HIM ON HIS WAY IN TO TREE

Posted by shadinc on 11-29-2019 04:44 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pat Bizich
[B]Re-Read the post....
Dog A was ….on a leash....
Dog B came into the tree and was not yet handled !
Dog B is …. Off the leash !
If Dog A starts the fight .
----------------------------------------------------------------------Would it look any better for dog A if B was on leash? According to the rule it's OK. I see this becoming known as the Pit Bull Rule.

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Posted by grntinokla on 11-29-2019 06:09 PM:

I would like to see the official answer to this.I can say that if I owned dog b in this scenario,we would go home,whether scratched or withdrawn,and there would be some major discussions about coming in to a dog that has been treed long enough to be leashed at the tree!Of course,I think it would be a short discussion if he came in that late and jumped on a tied dog.

Posted by Jack Bingham on 11-29-2019 11:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by grntinokla
I would like to see the official answer to this.I can say that if I owned dog b in this scenario,we would go home,whether scratched or withdrawn,and there would be some major discussions about coming in to a dog that has been treed long enough to be leashed at the tree!Of course,I think it would be a short discussion if he came in that late and jumped on a tied dog.

The official answer is in the rules. Can't scratch a dog that on the leash.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 11-29-2019 11:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jack Bingham
The official answer is in the rules. Can't scratch a dog that on the leash.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 11-29-2019 11:50 PM:

Basically grin and bare it is what it has come too. Most already been doing that for years anyway.

Posted by crusader on 12-01-2019 04:47 PM:

most times when you tie your dog back.
he is several feet away from the tree.
so the dog off leash would have had to come to dog on leash to start the fight.

Posted by okreddog56 on 12-01-2019 04:57 PM:

COME ON PEOPLE USE COMMON SENSE A DOG ON LEASH TIED BACK OFF OF A TREE CAN NOT START THE FIGHT THE DOG LOOSE HAS TO COME TO HIM AND START IT.

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Posted by Bill(Chew) on 12-01-2019 07:05 PM:

Yes a tied dog can start a fight! We watched a tied dog jump at and try to eat a dog up just for coming by it.

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Posted by DAVE H on 12-01-2019 09:03 PM:

How long will it be before people are turning ole Gator loose with his leash still on. Lol

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Posted by pamjohnson on 12-02-2019 12:08 AM:

The game has changed. ukc is going to cater to the money boys that only have 1 goal. Win money. Not title hounds, not breed hounds. Just win. Not many will play along and not win because it's not going to be very affordable.
In the past at ukc you could take a young dog that still needed some experience and work along and some will still try to do that but there going to probably figure out in most cases over time it's not going to work out very often as well as in the past. All that said to get to the point, stay treed to win whatever it takes fight or not.

I want to say I was and still am very opposed to the new fighting rules. I feel we are heading down a tuff rd

Posted by shadinc on 12-02-2019 12:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
The game has changed. ukc is going to cater to the money boys that only have 1 goal. Win money. Not title hounds, not breed hounds. Just win. Not many will play along and not win because it's not going to be very affordable.
In the past at ukc you could take a young dog that still needed some experience and work along and some will still try to do that but there going to probably figure out in most cases over time it's not going to work out very often as well as in the past. All that said to get to the point, stay treed to win whatever it takes fight or not.

I want to say I was and still am very opposed to the new fighting rules. I feel we are heading down a tuff rd

I agree. It was a step backwards in getting rid of fighting dogs.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 12-02-2019 01:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
The game has changed. ukc is going to cater to the money boys that only have 1 goal. Win money. Not title hounds, not breed hounds. Just win. Not many will play along and not win because it's not going to be very affordable.
In the past at ukc you could take a young dog that still needed some experience and work along and some will still try to do that but there going to probably figure out in most cases over time it's not going to work out very often as well as in the past. All that said to get to the point, stay treed to win whatever it takes fight or not.

I want to say I was and still am very opposed to the new fighting rules. I feel we are heading down a tuff rd

Yeah, new rules have yet to take effect and the sky is already falling. Might as well take up golf.

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Posted by Sonny Phipps on 12-02-2019 01:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
The game has changed. ukc is going to cater to the money boys that only have 1 goal. Win money. Not title hounds, not breed hounds. Just win. Not many will play along and not win because it's not going to be very affordable.
In the past at ukc you could take a young dog that still needed some experience and work along and some will still try to do that but there going to probably figure out in most cases over time it's not going to work out very often as well as in the past. All that said to get to the point, stay treed to win whatever it takes fight or not.

I want to say I was and still am very opposed to the new fighting rules. I feel we are heading down a tuff rd

I think you are getting to worked up over it. Still be plenty of hunts that you describe where you can take a young unseasoned dog and help him develop. As for the staying treed no matter what, that my friend has been the way it has been for the 35 years I’ve hunted. If they can’t take pressure of all types your winning will be limited. I wish it wasn’t so, but it’s just life. This is one scenario that is getting beat on pretty hard. How many times do you even have a situation where dogs are coming into a leashed dog ? And then how many of those result in a fight? Maybe I’m living under a rock but I don’t see it happening that often. As a whole I see less rough tree dogs today then 20 years ago .

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Posted by Pat Bizich on 12-02-2019 02:58 AM:

Yes , this may be one of those once in a thousand probabilities.
There are lots of instances of odd things happening on hunts .
The fact that it happened is all the proof needed that it is a possibility .
Therefore an official ruling has been requested.
How many times have any of you been on a hunt ,
Had a dog get treed and tree closed while other dogs are still out somewhere else?
Except for adding in the fight factor it does occur many times in many hunts.
The way the rule is worded the plural use of dogs is used.
My opinion for what it is worth which is a big fat -0-.....
Both dogs should have to be on lead at the time of infraction to escape being scratched. Unless as it has always been the dog that started the fight can be determined .

Posted by Team Mafia 2 on 12-02-2019 04:18 AM:

Dog B is Scratched dog A is in the clear.

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 12-02-2019 04:20 AM:

Wow. Is all I can say. I'd like to know where all these mean dogs are. I hunt both KFC's primarily pkc. I hunt all over the country. I've seen maybe 3-4 mean dogs in the last 10 yrs. And most were in ukc and them dogs didn't hunt pkc. If your having that many dog fights when your in a hunt you better look at what's on the end of your lead.

As far as wanting an official answer to the question on this thread. If you can read its in the rules. YOU CANNOT SCRATCH A DOG THAT'S ON THE LEASH.

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