UKC Forums - Let's Discuss Performance Program

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Posted by Allen / UKC on 07-18-2018 05:04 PM:

Let's Discuss Performance Program

UKC is working on several significant changes relates to nite hunt structure, as well as the Performance Program. At this time details are still being finalized so we are not at liberty to discuss any changes at this time yet.

However, we would like your feedback and thoughts on a specific item related to the Performance Program. Current rules make a permanently nominated dog eligible for its whole life. This is a good deal for the owner but it does also take away from the fund obviously and might help increase point values otherwise.

Should UKC consider putting an age limit on those permanently nominated dogs, and if so, what should that age be? Leave as is? What are your thoughts?

Would it make a difference if those older dogs had some other good incentive to hunt for?

Posted by JiM on 07-18-2018 05:26 PM:

Looking back at the number of times my dogs have drawn dogs 4 or older, it's so few that I can't believe a 4 year old or older limit would end up making a significant difference. About the only times we draw old dogs is at events that don't pay points anyway. When you do go to a club level event and draw a 4 or 5 year old, it's usually a chiteater that ain't winning nothing anyway. So however you decide this one, I doubt many will notice.

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Posted by yadkintar on 07-18-2018 05:47 PM:

Need more pr more hype more build up !!

In this corner standing at 6'7" weighing in at 256lbs with a record of 26-0 with 26 wins coming by way of knockout the raining defending red bone man champion of the world Richard the hammer lambert.

It's time !!!

Mee

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-18-2018 06:06 PM:

My thoughts...
Make dogs older than 1yr still eligible to enroll at an increased fee according to age. You could make it where any that have points prior to being paid that those points don't count towards performance $. We just bought back another one that is 13mo old and was not paid up before a year and are out of luck on enrolling him.
My number #1 is include performance enrolling on Application for Permanent Registration aka puppy papers. So many do not send that separate sheet when they sell pups. The current application for permanent registration is confusing for many in the wording in fees by calling the registration a "Performance Pedigree" when it has nothing to do with enrolling in the performance program.I just had to explain over the weekend that paying the fee in step 6 did not pay up the pup that there is a separate sheet you will have to print off because it was not sent with puppy papers.
As for age we seem to have dogs of all ages at our hunts. Some always have a young one they are working on, others seem to be bringing the same one for years to finish or just occasionally hunt in a hunt and some buy un-titled dogs to hunt in hunts. The only Grands seem to be at larger events and RQE's. Maybe race according to age 2 and under, 4 and under and 5 and up with a hunt off between the top points earners for each age group.
If they were cut out at a certain age there would need to be a phase out for the previous enrolled dogs and new enrolled dogs that reach a certain age with some sort of senior incentive program or worthwhile hunt.
Jen

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 07-18-2018 06:10 PM:

Y not use a slideing scale to distribute point value to "permanently nominated" dogs for the life of the dog.....peak age imo is 2-4 yrs. dog should be hitting the hunts at those ages ,as it is now once over 4 yr old dogs are campaigned spareingly .
After that age their point value decreases , while maintaining whole life payout at a minimum.....
After 4 yrs it's time to move on to the next dog, IMO.
Maximize a dogs earnings while it's in it's prime.

Posted by yadkintar on 07-18-2018 06:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Need more pr more hype more build up !!

In this corner standing at 6'7" weighing in at 256lbs with a record of 26-0 with 26 wins coming by way of knockout the raining defending red bone man champion of the world Richard the hammer lambert.

It's time !!!

Mee

That was tar speak what I mention was recognize on here the high point dog and handler month by month recognition plus gives everybody a target lol.

Tar

Posted by ole hoss on 07-18-2018 06:12 PM:

I just want the money I don’t care how old the dogs our they ain’t no count at any age. If a man wins he should at least get his entry fee and his gas refunded. Use to be I wouldn’t own a pup that wasn’t ss and pp now I don’t care as long as there ss cause the pp doesn’t pay enough to even think about. Were does the performance money go? Who’s pocket?

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Posted by Blaze2014 on 07-18-2018 06:14 PM:

Do away with it, payout the night of the hunt.

__________________
Jacob Miller

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-18-2018 06:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Need more pr more hype more build up !!

And an easy link that is on the main page without having to do a search for performance races, breed standings ect would be nice. It should not take 5 min and eliminating 410 other found items to look it up!

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 07-18-2018 06:34 PM:

Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
UKC is working on several significant changes relates to nite hunt structure, as well as the Performance Program. At this time details are still being finalized so we are not at liberty to discuss any changes at this time yet.

However, we would like your feedback and thoughts on a specific item related to the Performance Program. Current rules make a permanently nominated dog eligible for its whole life. This is a good deal for the owner but it does also take away from the fund obviously and might help increase point values otherwise.

Should UKC consider putting an age limit on those permanently nominated dogs, and if so, what should that age be? Leave as is? What are your thoughts?

Would it make a difference if those older dogs had some other good incentive to hunt for?

Personally, I feel putting a cap on the age limit would be a mistake. When you pay a dog up and use the term permanently eligible I feel that's what gets the guys to pay the fee. Take that away and you might just have hunters not pay the dog up period.

I think a start as discussed before would be allowing Grand Nites to compete at the local level to keep earning points. Let's be honest a lot of UKC hunters are pleasure hunters that only hit a hunt when their local club has one.

__________________
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Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-18-2018 06:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
And an easy link that is on the main page without having to do a search for performance races, breed standings ect would be nice. It should not take 5 min and eliminating 410 other found items to look it up!

Gonna throw this out there, each kennel club has something that is loved by the hunters and works well that other could learn from and implement in there own way that still would make them unique.
For one it's the no leash lock when trees are scored in order that no one ever complains about. For it and another it's the tree countdown rewarding the dog that treed first. But one thing one does right is the races and standings. A simple click on a link and these guys check this frequently and when they are running for a ticket sometimes several times a day waiting on the latest update.
You should not have to do a search to find Performance standings or any race for that matter.

Posted by T Felderman on 07-18-2018 06:46 PM:

Re: Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Personally, I feel putting a cap on the age limit would be a mistake. When you pay a dog up and use the term permanently eligible I feel that's what gets the guys to pay the fee. Take that away and you might just have hunters not pay the dog up period.

I think a start as discussed before would be allowing Grand Nites to compete at the local level to keep earning points.

agreed

Also let dogs that aren't out of performance sires be paid up for a higher amount

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 07-18-2018 06:53 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
agreed

Also let dogs that aren't out of performance sires be paid up for a higher amount

Agreed, and not put the cap at 12 months old. Dogs are often sold a time or 2 around that age. It kind of sucks to buy one that you got going good that can't be paid up.

Make the fee a little higher most if serious will pay it.

Posted by Joe Moore on 07-18-2018 06:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Gonna throw this out there, each kennel club has something that is loved by the hunters and works well that other could learn from and implement in there own way that still would make them unique.
For one it's the no leash lock when trees are scored in order that no one ever complains about. For it and another it's the tree countdown rewarding the dog that treed first. But one thing one does right is the races and standings. A simple click on a link and these guys check this frequently and when they are running for a ticket sometimes several times a day waiting on the latest update.
You should not have to do a search to find Performance standings or any race for that matter.

Agreed, give people something to work towards with recognition.

__________________
Joe Moore
-2003 UKC Youth National Bench Show Champion
-2003 PKC Youth World Top 8
-2004 PKC Youth World Hunt, 3rd place
-2005 UKC PA State Overall Show Champion
-2007 UKC Youh National Hunt, 3rd place

-PKC Silver Ch, GRNTCH 'pr' Tree Stalkins Stylish Striker

Posted by blueticker on 07-18-2018 07:30 PM:

The one year cut off to enroll a hound is to get the ones that never make a night hunt dog to pay up. Extend the age would allow owners to not pay until the hound is making a decent hound.

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Posted by sleepy head on 07-18-2018 07:33 PM:

Re: Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Personally, I feel putting a cap on the age limit would be a mistake. When you pay a dog up and use the term permanently eligible I feel that's what gets the guys to pay the fee. Take that away and you might just have hunters not pay the dog up period.

I think a start as discussed before would be allowing Grand Nites to compete at the local level to keep earning points. Let's be honest a lot of UKC hunters are pleasure hunters that only hit a hunt when their local club has one.

Agree with Trevor

Posted by Lovis Burns on 07-18-2018 07:36 PM:

I just see a few things.

1. Make it were a dog can be paid up after 1 year of age, if it wasn't paid up.

2. Make it to were any dog can be paid up in the performance program even if the litter wasn't nominated.

3. And do not put an age cap on it. Leave it for the lifetime of the dog.

4. Make it to were a litter can be paid up without the sire being a performance sire. This would give the people a chance to who are not big on breeding a chance to participate as well. For example instead of 150.00 it would be 200.00

5. Also make it to where a dog can receive points from an RQE, Mini Slam and Slam hunts.

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Posted by Lovis Burns on 07-18-2018 07:45 PM:

Re: Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
I think a start as discussed before would be allowing Grand Nites to compete at the local level to keep earning points. Let's be honest a lot of UKC hunters are pleasure hunters that only hit a hunt when their local club has one.

GrNiteCh's can hunt at the local level. That was one of the reason the performance program came about. Was to increase the participation back at the local hunts and the GrNiteCh's would get some gain from it. But most people after they grand one out don't go back to the local hunts with it. They are on to the next one and safe the grands for the big hunts.

Mainly because the monetary gain isn't there. If the point value and monetary value would increase. You may see a change.

A way to possibly do that is to let any grnitech's that show up. Hunt for money like in the slams.

Posted by DEE POWELL on 07-18-2018 07:50 PM:

Performance Program needs to bring back paying up older pups

under 6 months $25.00
6 months to 1 year $50.00
1 year to 18 months $75.00
18 months to 2 years old $100.00

This would entice stud owners to get back to paying their hound up each year as a Performance Sire.

Example
A guy buys a hound that wasn't Performance paid and the hound is proving to be a consistent cast winner that new owner would pay that extra money to get that hound performance paid. JMO

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-18-2018 08:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticker
The one year cut off to enroll a hound is to get the ones that never make a night hunt dog to pay up. Extend the age would allow owners to not pay until the hound is making a decent hound.

Which is why it should on an increasing price scale according to age for anything over 12 months old. More participation at a higher fee = more $ coming in. Any points earned prior to being paid up should be not eligible only those earned after.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 07-18-2018 08:53 PM:

Re: Re: Re: Let's Discuss Performance Program

quote:
Originally posted by Lovis Burns
GrNiteCh's can hunt at the local level. That was one of the reason the performance program came about. Was to increase the participation back at the local hunts and the GrNiteCh's would get some gain from it.

I mean hunt Grands with Nite Chs.

Keep just 2 classes separate. Titled dogs and non Titled. I can't speak for everyone else but I'm willing to bet few have hit more hunts then me over the last 10 years. I enjoy competing and I enjoy supporting the local clubs. When I grand my dogs out as 1 year olds what am I supposed to do for the local level?

Allow Grands a chance at the points sometimes going to the Nite Chs and you'll have more show up. Maybe not at first but if UKC ciukd come up with some incentive to get people out they will come back.

Posted by T Felderman on 07-18-2018 08:57 PM:

PP wise, what's 1 dog approximately worth right now? say there are 4 nt champions. Would that be about $40 for first place?

let grands hunt in the Nt Ch category for PP and have a state race worth running for. I believe local participation will increase, definitely wont hurt.

Beat me to it Trevor, lol

Posted by yadkintar on 07-18-2018 09:01 PM:

Unless I am confused there is nothing stopping you and three of your grntch buddies from hunting now just travel together to all the hunts in your area would pay you about the same as a $30 $$$ kc hunt.

Tar

Posted by T Felderman on 07-18-2018 09:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Unless I am confused there is nothing stopping you and three of your grntch buddies from hunting now just travel together to all the hunts in your area would pay you about the same as a $30 $$$ kc hunt.

Tar

Must be confused, $30 entry with 4 dog at $$$ gets you $72.
$20 entry at UKC with 4 dogs gets you maybe $40-$45? that's why I asked in my previous post how much 1 dog is worth. I would rather take my buddies and win a hunt category with 8-10 dogs versus 4.

And what if my buddies don't want to go Tar? I guess I could just meet you in Missouri.

Posted by yadkintar on 07-18-2018 09:25 PM:

Well how much would you win against three ntchs lol. You could beat me easy !!

Tar

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