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Old Blood or New Blood?

In your opinion what do you think produces better hounds old bloodlines or new bloodlines? Is it better to keep starting with the same stuff or take what is already been produced and proven?

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Depends what you looking for .
Not as much nose in the hounds of today but plenty of tree.

Blood

quote:

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Originally posted by ridgerunner1
Depends what you looking for .
Not as much nose in the hounds of today but plenty of tree.

---

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Old Blood vs New Blood

I agree with the couple of responses given.

I think type and style are what's most important.

If it's not the right type and style, the old or new doesn't really matter.

Remember this. The newer hot-nosed, go yonder, get alone dogs didn't just happen. They were bred up from the old blood dogs that operated in that manner. But now, they are usually heavily bred on the old blood that operated that way.

I'm curious- I often hear a grounp on here demonizing these modern go-yonder, hot-nosed dogs that the hunts are producing..... claiming the dogs of ole were so much better....

How much do you travel and check out dogs to get these opinions? When is the last time you went to a hunt. I've hunted coonhounds in one form or another since about 1986. In the past few years I've hunted with hounds and different lines from Georgia, Iowa, Arkansas, and several places in Missouri. Trust me- that's a lot of driving from Wyoming.

My observations are way different. I've hunted with grade dogs- and several lines that are consistent winners in today's hunts. By large and far most of them can take any track that comes to them... and they are by large and far better than the dogs on average I hunted with years ago.

I'm confused as to what you guys think the hunts have done differently- any rules changes have been subtle- it's the same basic format as hunts were in any of your glory years. Plus there are many more dogs out pleasure hunting than hitting the hunts regularly.... and I"d guess most that attend hunts only go to a few local hunts a year. I'm guessing the guys hitting hunts at an elite level make up less than 10% of coon hounds... so to blame the hunts of ruining dogs is odd. Again.... it's just odd to me... I've seen nice dogs and know for sure the odds of getting a good one from a litter is much higher than it used to be.

I guess the absolute statements kinda' get on me- I mean there are probably 100,000- I don't know 200,000 guys with hounds coonhunting across this country... hundreds of hunts in different formats in different types of geography... then to hear someone say "It's had to find a good dog".. Really???? Tell us where you've looked. Maybe I'm wrong... But I've put a few miles on over the past 5 years to see what's out there... I do more than type on the internet. Maybe the constant assumption that your dogs 20 years ago were great, and based on something you read on the internet bashing ALL modern dogs... maybe that's why this board has almost no traffic. Put in some effort- there are nice dogs out there, lots of them. Find something nice to say.

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houndsound well said!

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Houndsound

Well said x2

Heck, I’m still trying to figure out how far back before it’s considered Old Blood.

quote:

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Originally posted by houndsound
I'm curious- I often hear a grounp on here demonizing these modern go-yonder, hot-nosed dogs that the hunts are producing..... claiming the dogs of ole were so much better....

How much do you travel and check out dogs to get these opinions? When is the last time you went to a hunt. I've hunted coonhounds in one form or another since about 1986. In the past few years I've hunted with hounds and different lines from Georgia, Iowa, Arkansas, and several places in Missouri. Trust me- that's a lot of driving from Wyoming.

My observations are way different. I've hunted with grade dogs- and several lines that are consistent winners in today's hunts. By large and far most of them can take any track that comes to them... and they are by large and far better than the dogs on average I hunted with years ago.

I'm confused as to what you guys think the hunts have done differently- any rules changes have been subtle- it's the same basic format as hunts were in any of your glory years. Plus there are many more dogs out pleasure hunting than hitting the hunts regularly.... and I"d guess most that attend hunts only go to a few local hunts a year. I'm guessing the guys hitting hunts at an elite level make up less than 10% of coon hounds... so to blame the hunts of ruining dogs is odd. Again.... it's just odd to me... I've seen nice dogs and know for sure the odds of getting a good one from a litter is much higher than it used to be.

I guess the absolute statements kinda' get on me- I mean there are probably 100,000- I don't know 200,000 guys with hounds coonhunting across this country... hundreds of hunts in different formats in different types of geography... then to hear someone say "It's had to find a good dog".. Really???? Tell us where you've looked. Maybe I'm wrong... But I've put a few miles on over the past 5 years to see what's out there... I do more than type on the internet. Maybe the constant assumption that your dogs 20 years ago were great, and based on something you read on the internet bashing ALL modern dogs... maybe that's why this board has almost no traffic. Put in some effort- there are nice dogs out there, lots of them. Find something nice to say.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by houndsound
I'm curious- I often hear a grounp on here demonizing these modern go-yonder, hot-nosed dogs that the hunts are producing..... claiming the dogs of ole were so much better....

How much do you travel and check out dogs to get these opinions? When is the last time you went to a hunt. I've hunted coonhounds in one form or another since about 1986. In the past few years I've hunted with hounds and different lines from Georgia, Iowa, Arkansas, and several places in Missouri. Trust me- that's a lot of driving from Wyoming.

My observations are way different. I've hunted with grade dogs- and several lines that are consistent winners in today's hunts. By large and far most of them can take any track that comes to them... and they are by large and far better than the dogs on average I hunted with years ago.

I'm confused as to what you guys think the hunts have done differently- any rules changes have been subtle- it's the same basic format as hunts were in any of your glory years. Plus there are many more dogs out pleasure hunting than hitting the hunts regularly.... and I"d guess most that attend hunts only go to a few local hunts a year. I'm guessing the guys hitting hunts at an elite level make up less than 10% of coon hounds... so to blame the hunts of ruining dogs is odd. Again.... it's just odd to me... I've seen nice dogs and know for sure the odds of getting a good one from a litter is much higher than it used to be.

I guess the absolute statements kinda' get on me- I mean there are probably 100,000- I don't know 200,000 guys with hounds coonhunting across this country... hundreds of hunts in different formats in different types of geography... then to hear someone say "It's had to find a good dog".. Really???? Tell us where you've looked. Maybe I'm wrong... But I've put a few miles on over the past 5 years to see what's out there... I do more than type on the internet. Maybe the constant assumption that your dogs 20 years ago were great, and based on something you read on the internet bashing ALL modern dogs... maybe that's why this board has almost no traffic. Put in some effort- there are nice dogs out there, lots of them. Find something nice to say.

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Old vs new blood

Houndsound made some very good points and I have to agree with some of them. I have hunted hard for over 50 years up until the last couple of years due to health issues. I hunted 5/6 nights a week in the fall and winter months. I have owned 3 Top Coon Dogs in that time, 1 in the early seventies, 1 in the late 80's and 1 in the 2000's. I have hunted and tried dogs in many states North and South. My experience in those 50 plus years shows that there are way more good dogs in the past 30 years than all the previous years I have hunted. You definitely have a much better chance of getting a good dog now than ever before. What I seeing now is the dogs are hotter nosed across the board as most competition hunters do not want a dog fooling with a colder track, they want points fast. Many dogs today are the product of a handler and not entirely genetics. I NEVER knock what the other man hunts, if it suits him that's all that matters. I do not long for the old days of coon hunting dogs as modern dogs are way better. It's not uncommon to see pups treeing their own coons at a real young age, something you never seen 60 years ago. Personally I like a cold trailing dog that can run a cold track and have the coon every time it trees. Competition hunts tend to favor hotter nosed dogs that's just how it is. I am grateful to those who breed trying to get better dogs every time they make a cross, it has definitely produced better hounds these days than ever before. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Old vs new

Well said Houndsound!

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quote:

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Originally posted by treedog2345
I agree with you to a point . I don't think it is the dogs were need to compare but the owners and handlers. I spent alot of time and money in the past year trying to find the right dog that suited me and believe me I have had and know what a Top level hound is. The problem lies where and when the owner slash handler says I have a Top end hound that will suit you you drive 10 plus hours to hunt and leave within an hour ot turning loose becouse the high high priced hound that you thought you were trying turns out to have more excuses made before you turn loose than anything.. I think it is more the people who don't know what constitutes a Top level hound. Than no Top level hounds left. Sure there are things I can't stand and wil not hunt but there are some good dogs left no matter breed

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How are you comparing them today??

I will always remember a comment an old foxhunter told me when we were listening to a race in the 60's when I asked how his old stud hound would have done in the race? He said, "unless they are running the same animal at the same time, you can not compare them because the tracking can be so different." Which brings me to todays " competition hunts". There is really no way to compare because they are not running the same track. At least back in the 3 hour hunts of the "olden days", you had a better idea which was the better of the four because they would be on the same track/tree. I feel the hunts of today have come down to the "luckiest" of the four. And yes Virginia, you can breed for a scorecard or the freezer, because the race isn't always won by the best, luck plays a hand in the win.

Speaking of luck, I must have been really lucky because I seen coon treed on a nighty bases back in the 50's to today? I would take a pup, hunt it and it would run and tree WITH THE COON. We would come home with fur just about every night. Still do. If fact, in the last 5 years I have gotten 3 hounds of which 2 were complete failures and 1 is in the top 5 of all I have fed. #1 was back in the 60's and still is my measuring stick as far as what I expect. The one thing I can remember from the old to the new blood is, dog traders aren't the big deal anymore as is the failed breeders selling pups.

But it really all comes down to "what do you want?" I know if I go hunting with a friend, I sure the heck don't want to walk a mile to his hound treed and then turn around and walk 2 miles to mine.

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OLD TIMER

quote:

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Originally posted by houndsound
I think some of that may be you are travelling to buy something.... people will usually tell you what you want to hear when you are willing to spend money. When I make trips and visit with people... I'm not trying to buy anything. I make it clear I'm just curious about their dogs and would like to tag along. The folks I have visited with for the most part don't have anything for sale... or at least nothing I could afford, lol.

I think what has "hurt" the ability to find a decent dog (or the perception) is that we use the internet for community more than the club-house now. Anyone can say anything- antidote type information is assumed to fact and becomes the basis for opinions... as opposed to actual relationships with people and actually hunting with their dogs for a good number of nights. That has hurt things more than the hunts- my guess.

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Old or new blood

All of today's dogs go back to old blood in one way or another.i believe the biggest difference is there should of been alot more culling.breed the best to the best keep the best and keep moving forward.although there is no guarantees there are some people out there with enough foresight to figure things out.unfortunately there's not enough of it and dogs are like people not everyone likes the same type.is which makes the world go around.

Old Blood vs New Blood

Every type of dog you have now, you also had back then. Where do you think todays dogs come from? In the not too distant future, todays dogs will be considered old blood.

If you could compare (you can't) the "most exceptional" dogs of the past to the "most exceptional" dogs of today, I think they would be approximately equal.

The biggest difference (old blood v. so-called new blood---or should it be called linebred old blood) is in everything else. Your chances of getting a "good" dog today is much higher than your chances of getting a "good" dog was back then. As a rule, dogs are just much better bred today. The average talent level has improved significantly.

Most of the better dogs of today (new blood) are actually linebred on some of the better dogs of the past. Many of the better dogs of the past were of unknown (single registry) or inaccurate (false papers) ancestry. I think that issue is much better today than it was back then.

So, if it's an old vs. new, I would say that the new "average" is better than the old "average". For me, old vs. new isn't as relevant as type and style. There's more to this than I can explain on here, but the three things I most dislike are: (1) roughness/disposition problems, (2) trashiness, and (3) slick treeing---though sometimes I would prefer this to struggling through the cut-over timber and green briars that I will also have to struggle through to get to them. Slick treeing is track quitting. I don't like track quitting. But, sometimes I'm ready to quit and go home, and ready to accept a track quit (slick tree). Somehow, that doesn't seem to work out.

To me their was dogs years ago as good as the dogs of today!To often a percentage of people base how good a dog is on these hunts.We have to remember there are alot more hunts now than ever before and majority of them have less dogs.I have always thought that if we are going to base how good a dog is on the hunts,then have hunts from mid October to mid April! Seems like the hunts I've been to lately alot of dogs start barking as you unsnap them and good percentage of the time they have no track.I can only say hunt the type of dog that you like and know that dog forwards, backwards and in between so that your dog and you have the best chance to do good! Common sense goes along ways if used!

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I had rather walk a mile to a dog treed in 20 minutes than sit there listening to ole Joe go back and fourth on a track to end up a mile two or three hours later!!! They was good and bad dogs 30 years ago and good and bad now. How many Frozen pups of the past dominating hunts now days?

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