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-- The Greatest dogs in the History of the Sport. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928535581)


Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 12-30-2020 12:42 PM:

The Greatest dogs in the History of the Sport.

I saw and ad on facebook from back in 1995 that got me to thinking. The dog in the ad in my opinion had a lot to do with the Treeing Walker Breed. I did a Google search and was not surprised but it just brought back my lack of faith in what some hunters can and will say. I was amazed as all the negative comments about the dog. So I googled another great (In my opinion) hound. Same thing. Some like him, many didn't. In one state they say the offspring was the greatest track dogs to ever live. In another state they say the line of dogs have no tracking ability. After seeing the same pattern over and over again on Walker Hounds. I searched some well known English Hounds. Same thing. Love, Hate relationship with the dog. It don't stop there. Black and tans, redbones and others. All got the same press. The best I can figure out is back in the early 90's is when all this internet stuff and message boards got popular. About then is when it came to light, because of free and flowing speech that all the dogs I dreamed about from magazine ads were duds. Every line of Walker dog or Black dog or English dog I have tried to own since the late 60's. According to Google were duds and could not reproduce. Some guys like myself liked them. But on the message boards there are a bunch of haters. They say hate and jealousy blinds people. Guess liking and respecting something blinds people also. Then we come on here wanting to know how to breed better hounds. Until you remove the human ego it's a battle. I never thought of having a bucket list for when I got old. But I am thinking about one now. Just would like to get in the truck and visit some of the sports well known and respected men. Hunt with their hounds. Never repeat anything I saw on a message board. Just die one day having my own opinion of these hounds.

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Posted by DL NH on 12-30-2020 03:26 PM:

It seems that many feel the best hounds are always a long ways away from where you live. I think primarily because people have a tendency to take what they read/hear at face value. Many (including me!) find they’ve been perhaps to quick to believe what someone whom they’ve never met says about a dog or dogs they’ve never seen or run with.

My best hounds over the years have come from locally owned hounds that I’ve been able to go see perform both in the woods and at home in the kennel. A top hunting dog that is a PIA at home in the kennel or on a chain is as worthless to me as a dog that doesn’t perform in the woods. A hunting dog spends more time at home then it does in the woods..........this holds true for even the hardest of hunters.

__________________
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Posted by 2ol2hunt on 12-30-2020 03:37 PM:

You need to have at it Bruce! That's the ONLY way you will ever have peace of mind about anything, especially dogs because there is so many different opinions, styles, stories and lies and buddy buddy situations and just plain ignorance you have to see for yourself and I for one appreciate your mission to try and settle it. Ex. I was told about a man that turned down 100,000 dollars for a dog back in the 70's but it was all made up between him and his hunting buddy.


Posted by houndsound on 12-30-2020 03:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
It seems that many feel the best hounds are always a long ways away from where you live. I think primarily because people have a tendency to take what they read/hear at face value. Many (including me!) find they’ve been perhaps to quick to believe what someone whom they’ve never met says about a dog or dogs they’ve never seen or run with.

My best hounds over the years have come from locally owned hounds that I’ve been able to go see perform both in the woods and at home in the kennel. A top hunting dog that is a PIA at home in the kennel or on a chain is as worthless to me as a dog that doesn’t perform in the woods. A hunting dog spends more time at home then it does in the woods..........this holds true for even the hardest of hunters.



"A prophet is not welcome in his hometown". It is amazng how much better we feel like something is (from hounds- to about anything else) if it comes from a ways off. We tend to feel like we've made some sort of power move when we say "I got that pup from (insert State far away)." LOL

I really appreciated your comment, "A hunting dog spends more time at home then it does in the woods..........this holds true for even the hardest of hunters." Two things that need to be driven out of the hound world are inaccurate hounds- this idea of 60 - 70 percent accurate just shouldn't be... but also the rattle headed barking, pacing, dog in the yard. Just shouldn't be.

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Posted by droopy_dog2004 on 12-30-2020 04:09 PM:

In my opinion a lot of the loose mouthed comments are based off of he said she said information. The more honest opinions though I feel are based strictly off of ones own personal interpretation of dogs. For instance I talked to a gentleman a while back and he was talking about his cold nosed slow trailing hound yet in reality I haven’t seen that, I’ve just seen a poor track dog slow trailing and treeing average tracks. There again it’s strictly interpretation in my mind.

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Posted by Cory Highfill on 12-30-2020 05:42 PM:

I like the sentiment, and would love to just get in the truck and go see for myself, but in reality I think it would be pretty difficult to travel around and get a real and accurate feel for some of the top dogs or top strains out there. I've got a pup at my house a real dog man would shoot most nights, but a money man would pull the wallet out for every once in awhile. You might have to hunt with him a week to see just how sorry he is.

Furthermore, within most lines there's such wild variations between strains and even individuals that it would be really hard to get a concensus. There are a few men out there that hunt what they breed, cull hard and honest, and are able to reproduce high quality litters with similar attributes year after year, but they are few and far between.


Posted by 2ol2hunt on 12-30-2020 06:01 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Cory Highfill
I like the sentiment, and would love to just get in the truck and go see for myself, but in reality I think it would be pretty difficult to travel around and get a real and accurate feel for some of the top dogs or top strains out there. I've got a pup at my house a real dog man would shoot most nights, but a money man would pull the wallet out for every once in awhile. You might have to hunt with him a week to see just how sorry he is.

Furthermore, within most lines there's such wild variations between strains and even individuals that it would be really hard to get a concensus. There are a few men out there that hunt what they breed, cull hard and honest, and are able to reproduce high quality litters with similar attributes year after year, but they are few and far between.

This is probably the reality of what you are going to get, I guess a man's reputation is what you would have to depend on but seeing for yourself would be wonderful if you could swing it!


Posted by kybufford on 12-30-2020 06:59 PM:

If a person doesn't like, what everyone else is calling a good dog. They probably got beat by that dog or butt hurt by the owner. I've listen to guys run down some really good dogs just for the face they don't like the owners. Or some just don't like the breed, I'm a black and tan guy in world full of walkers, but is till know a good dog when i hunt with it. The best coon dog I've hunted with in a long time was a cur dog. He was treeing coons in front of dogs behind dogs all around the other dogs. Now some wouldn't like him because he silent on track, but he can tree you a truck load of coons. He wasn't for sale type dog because i ask.

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Posted by Dave Richards on 12-30-2020 09:09 PM:

Re: The Greatest dogs in the History of the Sport.

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I saw and ad on facebook from back in 1995 that got me to thinking. The dog in the ad in my opinion had a lot to do with the Treeing Walker Breed. I did a Google search and was not surprised but it just brought back my lack of faith in what some hunters can and will say. I was amazed as all the negative comments about the dog. So I googled another great (In my opinion) hound. Same thing. Some like him, many didn't. In one state they say the offspring was the greatest track dogs to ever live. In another state they say the line of dogs have no tracking ability. After seeing the same pattern over and over again on Walker Hounds. I searched some well known English Hounds. Same thing. Love, Hate relationship with the dog. It don't stop there. Black and tans, redbones and others. All got the same press. The best I can figure out is back in the early 90's is when all this internet stuff and message boards got popular. About then is when it came to light, because of free and flowing speech that all the dogs I dreamed about from magazine ads were duds. Every line of Walker dog or Black dog or English dog I have tried to own since the late 60's. According to Google were duds and could not reproduce. Some guys like myself liked them. But on the message boards there are a bunch of haters. They say hate and jealousy blinds people. Guess liking and respecting something blinds people also. Then we come on here wanting to know how to breed better hounds. Until you remove the human ego it's a battle. I never thought of having a bucket list for when I got old. But I am thinking about one now. Just would like to get in the truck and visit some of the sports well known and respected men. Hunt with their hounds. Never repeat anything I saw on a message board. Just die one day having my own opinion of these hounds.


Bruce, JESUS was treated with scorn by many, a dog does not have a chance no matter how good they are or how good they reproduce, just human nature. Dave

__________________
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Posted by Reuben on 12-31-2020 01:11 AM:

A great hunting dog should be acknowledged for what it is no matter the breed or whoever owns it...call the dog as it is...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...


Posted by D Seals on 12-31-2020 01:27 AM:

A wise man once told me, “you’ll run all over the country trying to find a hound better than the one tied up out back”.... Some of the best advice I’ve ever heard.


Posted by Cowboyred on 12-31-2020 11:16 PM:

Greatest dogs

The most difficult part of this discussion is the absolute lack of a quantitative way to rate these hounds. One person may find the hunting style or ability of a certain hound to be great and highly desirable but those abilities and or style may not work for the next individual. So the very same dog is going to be evaluated very differently depending upon each persons perspective. So Bruce, those dogs you thought were great probably were to quite a few people but maybe not so much to others. You can filter out a great deal of the BS, petty jealousy, breed blindness by getting your feedback from people you know and or respect their opinion.


Posted by Ralph Williams on 01-01-2021 01:31 AM:

A few years back I was supposed to buy a puppy from a guy at Orangeburge and when I couldn’t find the guy I saw another guy there that was studding a litter mate to the male I was supposed to get a pup from (hadn’t paid for it yet) and when I went up and asked this guy about the other guy he just started telling me how bad the litter mate to his was and how I should buy one of his pups and needless to say I went home with no oup!

__________________
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Posted by Kler Kry on 01-01-2021 04:50 PM:

Different Opinions

THIS IS A GREAT THREAD! It illustrates why it is so difficult for someone trying to improve their dogs and raise a litter of pups has to hunt with the dogs that they are considering to get an accurate analysis.
I wore out a 1969 ElCamino in the 70s hunting with walker studs in the midwest and never hunted with a dog that was better than the "yardstick"
that I was hauling around for comparison. JMO Ken Risley


Posted by wart on 01-01-2021 05:04 PM:

Dogs

A wise man told me a long time ago unless you are looking for a certain line you have just as good of dogs close to home as far away also it's a numbers game for some of the most popular dogs they get bred more


Posted by 2ol2hunt on 01-01-2021 05:09 PM:

Re: Different Opinions

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
THIS IS A GREAT THREAD! It illustrates why it is so difficult for someone trying to improve their dogs and raise a litter of pups has to hunt with the dogs that they are considering to get an accurate analysis.
I wore out a 1969 ElCamino in the 70s hunting with walker studs in the midwest and never hunted with a dog that was better than the "yardstick"
that I was hauling around for comparison. JMO Ken Risley

I did the same thing with a pocket full of money and was not limited to just stud dogs. Traveled all over the southeast, finally give up.


Posted by Josh Michaelis on 01-01-2021 05:17 PM:

If only they made an event you could go to that compared coon hounds!

Wouldn't that be something!

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Posted by novicane65 on 01-01-2021 07:29 PM:

You should never base your opinion on 1 hound per "line" or breed. And never form an opinion of a hound based on 1 night of hunting.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 01-01-2021 08:24 PM:

I to travelled ....and went and hunted with studs and there off spring.....
Here's my conclusion.....
They didn't have nutting better than I had....and I wasn't interested in breeding sideways......so with that revelation I breed my own.. ..and yes one of the best English dogs I have had the privilege of hunting with for 2-3 yrs. was only 30 minutes from my house.....go figure ?

So save urself sum $ and time.

But on the same note go and judge for urself .......ain't no better way .....same way I don't pay no attention to the "gossip" that's so previlent in this sport.


Posted by Donnie Stevens on 01-01-2021 09:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
If only they made an event you could go to that compared coon hounds!

Wouldn't that be something!



They used to. The way it is now four dogs treed a mile apart in four different directions doesn't tell me much about the traits I'm looking for.

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Posted by DOUG CHEEK on 01-02-2021 01:43 AM:

it like the guy that lives down the road that has a real nice dog but the guys will not breed to him --BECAUSE THEY SAW HIM TREE SLICK WHEN HE WAS 8 MONTHS ---but they will drive 10 hours and paid top dollar to breed to a dog they don't even know if will TREE --because they run real good ADDS each month and ADD a little color to the story about the dog

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Posted by Midnightghost on 01-02-2021 04:05 AM:

I think Doug said it best most people won't breed to a local dog because they look for one bad thing to pick them apart. I can say I have hunted the same line of dogs for 30 years. I just love training and hunting a buck creek dog it's just who I am. That being said the one dog that left an impression on me was handsome trucker it takes alot more that a tree dog to peak my interest. I just wonder if guys really watch what's happening in the woods or just look at what's on the score card. There are alot of really good dogs today very very few great dogs.


Posted by DL NH on 01-02-2021 05:30 AM:

So..........here’s a thought. If we all had great hounds wouldn’t we really just have an average hound??

I’ve never known anyone who has ALWAYS been in possession of a great hound. Not saying it may not be possible. Just saying I’ve never known anyone who has.

There comes a point when it almost seems like looking for the proverbial pot of Gold at the end of the rainbow. My guess is, should anyone be so fortunate as to “always” have a great one, they’re always looking for a better one and are never satisfied with what they have.

__________________
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Posted by pamjohnson on 01-02-2021 02:50 PM:

Something to think about. If you are breeding dogs there may be more important things than how great a dog is or what hunts he has won or how many hunts he won. Frankly even if he won any thing at all. Truthful I think how a dog starts as a pup may be more important from a breeding standpoint than the way he is as a finished coonhound. Breeding wise I like a line of dogs with a lot of desire. Without desire there nothing but a lot of work to get started. Not saying they won't make a world champion later in life. Now of course after they make wch everyone wants to breed to them. Once again them pups are not desirable pups and the circle continues.
1st thing some people need to figure out is are they wanting to breed good dogs or own a winner?


Posted by Reuben on 01-02-2021 06:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson


1st thing some people need to figure out is are they wanting to breed good dogs or own a winner?



Shouldn’t a winner be the best representative of excellent hunting dogs?

If the winner cannot be a good hunting dog to be a winner...it seems to me if you breed a winner to a top hunting dog then it would be like breeding two different breed of dogs...

__________________
Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...


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